Andy and Sandra Stanley’s Parenting Secrets

On a warm fall day a small box arrived containing a book I had requested to review, and alongside it was an advance copy of Parenting by Andy and Sandra Stanley. Since our guys are late 20s and early 30s respectively, I immediately thought if there was someone to whom I could simply pass the book on.

But then I read the first chapter. And that led to the second. And then I was hooked…

Review — Parenting: Getting it Right by Andy and Sandra Stanley.

As someone who spent nearly 15 years glued to my computer at 2:00 PM on Sunday to watch the full church service from North Point Community Church in Atlanta, I was no stranger to the writing and speaking of Andy Stanley. When he mentioned his kids, I kinda already knew them from years of exposure to his ministry.

So I was in familiar territory here.

What I wasn’t expecting was the familiarity the book seems to show toward readers like me, as if we’re friends sitting down to coffee.

Like his book Deep and Wide, this is an insight into what’s in ‘the secret sauce’ only instead of being a behind the scenes look at how the church operates, it’s a backstage pass to how their family operates, or perhaps operated, since his kids are now adults as well.

Also I wasn’t prepared for how much I would enjoy Sandra’s contribution.

Sandra Stanley has appeared on the platform at North Point before and in some other video content, but they share the writing responsibilities for Parenting equally, a format that is occasionally interrupted — as real couples do in real life — by the other interjecting something into the content of the primary author of that particular chapter.

The three Stanley kids themselves don’t have a direct voice in the book, but they were apparently involved in interviews leading to the making of the video curriculum based on the book.

So what did I learn?

Avoiding spoilers here, there is this really unexpected mix of Sandra and Andy allowing the kids to assume responsibility for their own actions, combined with what some would call a rather strict or anachronistic approach to mealtimes. The latter makes you think there’s going to be a strong, controlling philosophy of parenting, but then the former type of narrative makes you think they take a laissez-faire approach to raising children and teens.

Which is it?

There are also echoes of Andy’s relationship with his parents — one of whom is a person you may have heard of — and Sandra’s relationship with hers.

The book is divided into chapters covering different ages and stages of parenting. You could skip to relevant chapters, but I think that would cause you to miss the larger context. I also need to say that in addition to raising three of their own kids, Andy and Sandra are major proponents for fostering, and have had at least a dozen foster children in their home. 

Finally, chapters 10 and 11 are a very timely approach to raising Children with a Christian faith which is not prone to deconstruction. They took a very rational, balanced approach.

…In a teaser tweet about the book, I remarked in the Fall that I wish this book was publishing earlier… about 30 years earlier. I’m not saying I would have adopted 100% of their parenting style, but reading the book, I would have been aware of it and had it as a looping soundtrack in the background of decisions we had to make with our children in sometimes very different circumstances.

At the outset I stated that I thought this book was sent to me for someone else, but it was something I truly delighted in reading, even though I can’t put it all into practice.

I also can’t overstate that while parents are in the thick of the battle, they often don’t get around to purchasing parenting resources. This is a book that the rest of us need to buy with the sole purpose of passing it on to someone in your sphere of influence.

I can guarantee that if they will read the first couple of chapters, they will definitely want to read it to the end.

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Parenting: Getting it Right is officially publishing by Zondervan on January 17th in a 240-page hardcover in the United States, and in paperback in other parts of the world. Thanks to Mark H. at HarperCollins Christian Publishing Canada for a surprise copy of this great resource.

Let’s Start Rumors About People Whose Ministry We Don’t Follow

She informed me that Andy Stanley didn’t believe in the Old Testament.

It didn’t just come up in the conversation, rather I felt like it was the purpose of her visit. That I needed to know this.

I wasn’t buying it.

I told her that I had watched the message in question, if not in person, via the next best medium. That I have been watching Andy preach for at least a dozen years. It was once Sunday afternoons at 2:00 PM, but now the feed is available on demand.

I also said something about we need to know the heart of the people we are spreading rumors about, we need to understand their motivation to do something or say something that we consider unorthodox.  We also need to have a good handle on the intended audience. I added that knowing something about the context in which the statement appeared is also useful.

I don’t wish to get into the specifics. You can link to Michael Brown’s podcast for that. I encourage you to do so.

What struck me odd about yesterday’s exchange was that this person has probably never watched a North Point service from beginning to end. It was all about dropping someone’s name and then going in for the kill: “Do you know he doesn’t believe in the Old Testament?”

As if.

Well, actually I do know. I don’t know that, but I know what it is that’s got her so riled…

…After Christ’s ascension, something new was in the air. Something that owed so much to its origins in the teachings of the Hebrew scriptures, and yet, at the same time, was the start of a whole other paradigm.  Everything was on the table: declaring certain foods clean or unclean; circumcision or uncircumcision; etc.

It was the birth of The Church…

…Andy Stanley gets another shot at this — with a modern application — in the book Irresistible: Reclaiming The New That Jesus Unleashed For The World, publishing in September. Here’s what the publisher says about that:

Two thousand years ago, Christians risked persecution and death for the sake of their faith. What would happen if 21st-century believers followed their lead? Taking you back to a time when Christianity couldn’t be ignored, marginalized, or eradicated, Stanley shows how the early church turned the world upside down—and how we can recover that same faith

Will those who who are so quick to criticize Andy jump at the chance to hear his defence?

Somehow I doubt it.

 

 

North Point Community Church on Race Relations in America

Sometimes it seems like we’ve gone back to the 1960s. The state of the relationship between black and white seems to be at a low that the present generations have not witnessed since the race riots of the ’50s and ’60s. Furthermore, it seems to be getting worse.

Has this — police violence against black people — been going on longer than we know? All I can say is that in this case, I’m thankful that phones now have cameras, and that we have social media to spread the word. (See also the book review here a few days ago for Shane Claiborne’s new book, where he also covers the history of black lynching in America.) Media holds us to a higher level accountability. (I’m reminded of Luke 8:17, Luke 12:2, and even the unique wording of Acts 26:26… You can run but you can’t hide.)

Last weekend, Andy Stanley at North Point Community Church in Atlanta preempted his schedule sermon to have a discussion about the subject with Sam Collier & Joseph Sojourner. The day before he Tweeted: “When you decide to rewrite your message on your day off… Don’t miss church tomorrow!” This church service was rather spontaneous.

I had hoped to embed the message here somehow, but I’ll point you to the link and trust you to click through. This will involve about 45 minutes of your time. (They sing only two songs, have one baptism, and go straight into the interview.) If you have any interest at all on this topic, I assure you that once you start, you’ll want to stay with most of what follows. It’s worth at least watching about 20 minutes of this.

A large percentage of the U.S. population should not have to live in fear from the very people sworn to serve and protect.

Here’s the link to North Point Online.

Andy Stanley: Love, Sex and Dating

Eschewing the standard Christian Television approach, Andy Stanley and the staff at North Point in Atlanta have been buying time on local NBC stations after Saturday Night Live. The repackaged sermon video is called Your Move, and the website is YourMove.Is

Today, if you have 28.5 minutes; we’re going to watch one of Andy’s most popular messages, which is also a book and a curriculum, The New Rules for Love Sex and Dating. This is the first of several episodes and deals with The “Right Person” Myth.

Wednesday Link List

You know, that thing where you take a bucket of links and pour them over your head…

• On July 21st of last year, Ken Brantly gave this message to his home church in Indianapolis.
• What police in Ferguson, Missouri couldn’t accomplish, clergy did.
• Another perspective on Ferguson: After eight years in the Cayman Islands, a pastor in Washington, DC is justifiably concerned for his son…
• …While another parent has an entirely different perspective, but similar fears.
• The pastor of one of Charlotte, NC’s largest churches who also hosts an iconic radio ministry program is being investigated.
• What happens when the ‘regular’ editions of Christian books aren’t good enough for people who prefer the ESV?
• Communion complications: “…[W]hen a bridal couple partakes without the whole assembly, they have inadvertently disqualified some believers on the spurious grounds that they are not getting married that day.”
• Historical artifacts: A video interview with people who were actually there for the 1906 Azusa Street revival that launched North American Pentecostalism.
• Essay of the Week: These days everybody does it, but should sermons be published or posted online?
• Personality Profile: You got your Myers Briggs, your Strength Finders, and your DISC, but for leadership development Nancy Beach favors the classic Enneagram.
• Founded only in 2012, a new conservative Presbyterian denom has “…grown from 30 churches and 10,000 covenant partners at our first Synod gathering in 2013 to now having 149 churches and 60,000 covenant partners…”
• With over 8,300 views, this InterVarsity Press book excerpt by Sean Gladding is IVP’s most downloaded.
• Essay of Another Kind: Everything lost in a fire, then, a shattering medical diagnosis. The article is simply titled, “Loss.”
• Parenting the College-bound: “[T]he only freshmen who will be completely “safe” in college are the ones with completely pure hearts. And the last time I checked my Bible, that’s none of us.”
• Question of the Week: How do events involving ISIS shake things on both ends of the continuum between pacifism and ‘just war’ theory?
• What the–Yes! It’s an article on the vulgar and obscene parts of the Bible. (We’re checking to see if you click on this one!)
• Games Christian Play: You can rewrite this for your own denom, but to get the game going here’s 5 ways to sabotage a Mennonite Church committee meeting.
• Francis Chan and Lisa Chan rap their way through their book promotional video for You and Me Forever, which released yesterday. If the book doesn’t sell, they might have a future in music.
• We interrupt this sermon series: Andy Stanley rewrote the playbook on his “In The Meantime” series last Sunday (part two) when it became apparent people wanted to go deep.
• Links to articles on marriage and parenting are easy to come by, but items tailored for blended families are harder to find.
• Pete Wilson notes that increasingly, individuals and couples have ‘revolving door’ best friends.
• A survey sample of 500 UK teens found nearly three-quarters saying it’s too easy to stumble on stuff online you shouldn’t be seeing.
• A short article arguing that every denomination that takes a liberal position on sexual issues sees a drop in attendance.
• Podcast Place: Canada’s long-haired pastor Bruxy Cavey spent the summer teaching his congregation systematic theology. (Audio or video)
• They keep their purity pledge and meeting with their accountability partner, but then, once married, the support structures vanish.
• Tim Keller consolidates much of his sermon audio on a new website, though you need to be prepared to pay.
• Ladies’ Link (a new category we’re testing out): If you missed Lysa TerKeurst’s live book launch webcast for The Best Yes, here’s another chance to watch.
• Christians who aren’t part of a local church. You know some. I know some. Did the early church know any?
• Twitter Curiosity of the Week: Michael Patton wrote, “‘Prone to wander Lord I feel it, prone to leave the God I love . . .’ Did you know the writer of this song left the faith?” As Wikipedia might say, ‘Citation needed’ or at least wanted, which led me to this article.
• Also at P&P: 21 Things Christians Say That Hurt Their Credibility. (Warning: Each is a link to a detailed article. You may get lost in these for an hour or more.)
• A singer from a legendary gospel music family is suing an Atlanta festival promoter for $75,000.
• Your Facebook post or email forward for today: The Blue Letter Bible, a list of ten things it doesn’t say.
• Another arrangement of the popular song, Oceans. So why is that some songs connect and some don’t? (It was rhetorical…)
• Finally, if you live in Hawaii, keep an eye out for a white male jogger carrying a cross.
• Oh, and a personal statement: Realizing the need for repentance and restoration, I will be stepping down from link listing for a period of six days.

So there you have it! Not a single link about the social media story of the week, unless you count the sideways reference in that last item. To submit a link, send it by noon on Monday, except for next week, which is a holiday Monday.

 

Wednesday Link List

And you thought I would take the day off, didn’t you? Well, the link list crew worked all New Year’s Day to bring this to you.

• Russell D. Moore has a unique observation post from which to consider the decision by the Russian government to suspend adoptions of Russian children by Americans. I think his two Russian born children would agree with his summary.
• Hi readers. Meet Matt Rawlings. Matt read 134 books last year. How did you do? 
• And here’s another Matt. Matt Appling has put together an amazing essay on why the concept of shame is ripe for a comeback.
  
• David Murrow has an interesting idea in which popular TV pastors are a brand that is a type of new denomination. He also has other ideas about what the church will look like in 50 years. (Or read the Todd Rhoades summary.)
  
• Some readers here also blog, and if that’s you, perhaps you do the “top posts” thing. (I don’t.) But if you had a post-of-the-year, I can almost guarantee it weren’t nothin’ like this must-read one.
• “This is the most egregious violation of religious liberty that I have ever seen.” Denny Burk on what is largely a U.S.-based story, but with justice issues anyone can appreciate: The case of Hobby Lobby.
• Can some of you see yourself in this story? “It’s really hard for me to read God’s word without dissecting it. I like to have commentaries and cross references. I like to take notes. I like to circle, underline, rewrite. And then my time with God turns into another homework assignment.” I can. More at Reflect blog.
• This one may be sobering for a few of you. David Fitch offers three signs that you are not a leader, at least where the Kingdom of God is concerned.
• “We put people into leadership roles too early, on purpose. We operate under the assumption that adults learn on a need-to-know basis. The sooner they discover what they don’t know, the sooner they will be interested in learning what they need to know…At times, it creates problems. We like those kinds of problems…” Read a sample of Andy Stanley’s new book, Deep and Wide, at Catalyst blog.
• So for some of you, 2013 represents getting back on the horse again, even though you feel you failed so many times last year. Jon Acuff seems to understand what you’re going through.
• Dan Gilgoff leaves the editor’s desk at CNN Belief Blog after three years and notes five things he learned in the process.
• More detail on the Westboro petition(s) at the blog Dispatches from the Culture Wars; along with our get well wishes to blog proprietor Ed Brayton, recovering from open heart surgery.
  
• Rachel Held Evans mentioned this one yesterday: The How To Talk Evangelical Project.  Sample: “If Christianese was a language, evangelical was our own special dialect. A cadence. A rhythm…” Click the banner at the top for recent posts.
• Not sure how long this has been available, but for all you Bible study types,  here’s the ultimate list for academically-inclined people who want to own the best Bible commentary for each Bible book. (And support your local bookstore if you still have one!)
• Bob Kauflin salutes the average worship leader, working with the average team at the average church. Which despite what you see online is mostly people like us.
  
• Flashback all the way to September for this one: Gary Molander notes that the primary work of a pastor is somewhat in direct conflict with the calling they feel they are to pursue. He calls it, Why is it So Stinkin’ Hard to Work for a Church?
• Nearly three years ago, we linked to this one and it’s still running: CreationSwap.com where media shared for videos, photos, logos, church bulletins, is sold or given away by thousands of Christian artists.

Wednesday Link List

Try to have your link suggestions in by 8:00 PM EST Monday.

• What happens when Anabaptist convictions and Catholic worlds collide? An interview with Jesus For President co-author (with Shane Claiborne) Chris Haw on his latest, From Willow Creek to Sacred Heart.
  
• CNN did an exhaustive profile on the father/son relationship between Charles Stanley and Andy Stanley. (Skip the comments, though; no wonder media outlets are shutting down their religion blogs.)
• For those of you with high speed internet, Duke Taber has a collection of ten contemporary Christian Christmas songs — never thought I’d have to construct a phrase that way — to put you in the mood for 12/25.
• For pastors, worship leaders, and church leaders in general: A contrast between success and fruitfulness in ministry.
• Some Arminians don’t want to include open theists in their group because it gives credence to a Calvinist belief that Arminianism is part of a slippery slope toward… open theism. Roger Olson explains.
• At Daily Encouragement, we were recently informed that in some parts of Asia, the equivalent to “How Are You?” is “Did You Eat?” We have much to be thankful for.
• Carolyn Arends and her 14-year old son are on opposite sides of the table when it comes to creation theory, as are many Evangelicals.
• Now, see, if we were into sensationalism, we’d include a link to the one about the 80 year old priest who bit the ear off another clergyman.
• Or the one where Pat Robertson dismisses the whole David Petreaus scandal as something to be expected. (And here’s the word he used.)
• A church an hour east of Toronto, Canada is using a mobile app as a major part of its church growth strategy.
• Albert Mohler thought the election results were an “Evangelical Disaster,” but one author thinks maybe it was a good thing.
• Inside Perspective: What does it look like when the funeral protestors show up in your own home town? 
• When she’s not biographing Justin Beiber, Cathleen Falsani is following U2’s Bono to Georgetown University, where she summarizes the evening and includes a video of his full address.
  
• Mark D. Roberts referred to an author I remember reading, Ben Patterson who taught him to remember that our words should please God.
  
• Renown atheist Penn Jillette of magic team Penn and Teller has included the Bible in his list of six favorite books.  Of course he’s being cynical.
• This links takes you to the channel for articles by Anna Heydenrych, an author women will resonate with, whose column Coffee Break originates with Gateway, a South African Christian news portal.

The Perils of Successful Online Churches

On Sunday Andy Stanley looked right into the camera and said (more or less), “If you’re watching this online you need to turn off the computer right now and get dressed and find a local church.” I just about fell out of my chair. 

“That took courage;” I whispered to my wife.

In a series of articles at the blog, Church Marketing Sucks (yes, it’s called that) Jon Rogers notes the success of the online church service:

LifeChurch.tv has surpassed their physical audience as their church online experience already tops 3 million unique visitors in 2012 (there are around 100,000-120,000 unique visitors at Church Online each week). However currently there aren’t metrics for tracking those who only attend online and how often.

If your church is considering putting your service online, there is much useful practical advice here.

• The Pixelated Church, part one
• The Pixelated Church, part two

Is Not the Whole More Than the Sum of the Parts?

I was thinking about the Andy Stanley sermon controversy when my weekly blog trip took me past a January item that appeared at Kevin deYoung’s blog concerning Jeff Bethke’s mega-popular spoken word video, Why I Hate Religion But Love Jesus.  (I’m actually expected to say, “at The Gospel Coalition” instead of “…deYoung’s blog,” as this is a very elite company, but I’ve never been big on formalities here.) 

deYoung is part of the young angry restless Reformed group, though he approached his exegesis of Bethke’s text in a gentle and balanced way that resulted in a couple of pleasant email exchanges between the two. 

It turns out Bethke was/is still fairly young in his faith, and wrote the piece never expecting it get the 21,000,000 views it has now received.  deYoung may have allowed for that possibility but as Frank Turk pointed out in the piece that directed me to KdY’s at TGC, with all those views comes a certain responsibility.

Kevin deYoung’s blogroll — all the usual suspects

Basically, anybody can say anything in obscure quarters of the internet, but once your efforts become a blip on the wider radar, you are subject to closer scrutiny.  deYoung justifies this: “I know the internet is a big place, but a lot of people are connected to a lot of other people.”

At that point it becomes, ‘I know your intention was to say X, Y, and Z; but in the process of doing so, you must not omit including A, B, and C.”

Now, I arrived late to the party — the article was posted January 13th — but I think Kevin deYoung and many of his band of followers are analyzing the words spoken but missing the heart of the speaker.

And that’s exactly what many — Albert Mohler, Jr. being the most notable — are doing with Andy Stanley’s sermon illustration. While it’s a badge of honor to jump on the bandwagon that Stanley’s story is approving of gay marriage, I personally consider it a badge of honor to have watched the sermon live and been able to read the heart of what Stanley was saying, while at the same time thinking, ‘Some people are going to be uncomfortable with this particular narrative to make this particular point.’

The question we have to ask ourselves at times like this, is: ‘Are we looking for problems?’ But sometimes, the problem isn’t what a major church pastor doesn’t say, but what his congregation thinks he’s saying.

Which leaves me wondering what to do with John Piper’s recent encyclical featured at Christian Post.

…I dealt with a couple one time. They were sitting in front of me, and she said, “He learned from you that I have to get permission from him for everything I do.” I said, “Really? Like what?” And she said, “To go to the bathroom! He won’t let me leave the room without his permission. If I get up and walk out of the room, he says, ‘Hey, you’re supposed to ask me first.'”

The key line being, “He learned from you…”

Which, a few paragraphs later, brings us to:

So the answer would be, clearly, Yes, there are people who would draw lines in places that they shouldn’t be drawn.

That any of this needed to be said at all attracted the intention of the keepers of The Wartburg Watch.

I contend that complementarianism has been made a primary issue by the Calvinista crowd. Times have changed. Years ago, it did not overly concern me that there were people who believed in a young earth. I subscribed to the CS Lewis philosophy (paraphrased) that people who believe that God has a long white beard will still be able to go to heaven. It was only when I was made a target by a bunch of rabid young earthers who actually believed that a salvation issue might be involved I reconsidered my stance. Then I got interested, real interested.

The same applies to the subject of complementarianism. I knew some folks who believed in strict complementarianism but it was one of those agree to disagree things. That is, until I started to realize that this issue was going in the same direction as the “young earth or be damned” group. For several years, Deb and I have  predicted that more and more would need to be written in order to justify a rabid defense of such a doctrine. Unfortunately, we have been proven right.

First came the Eternal Subordination of the Son, which has been used to justify a belief  that women will submit to men in all eternity. I do not know if these men understand that I would consider it hell if I were forced to submit to the likes of Driscoll, et al. for eternity. 

Then John Piper and Tim Challies came out with a new mandate that women are not allowed to read the Bible out loud in church services. Challies, in a post I like to call “Hubris Rising,”  also “instructs” the great unwashed males in proper breathing and diction techniques, appearing to indicate that stutterers and those with COPD need not apply.Link

Finally, there was the startling Russell Moore pronouncement that he strongly dislikes the term “complementarians” and prefers the word “patriarchy…” Link

…Piper then discusses that we should be sensitive in how we apply “biblical clarity” in such situations. However, he adds no “clarity” to this situation except to say that women do not have to ask their husbands permission to go to the bathroom. Why does he not “clarify” his belief structure in this matter? Could it be that it might be a bit awkward for him?

Is he aware that some of his buddies have encouraged some distinctly odd and even abusive behaviors, on occasion? Piper says,“And we’re going to probably make different judgments about that.” He is discussing Biblical clarity and then says we are going to see things differently? So much for “clarity.”  There’s the rub. Here are “examples” of “clarity” and “differing judgements” that have been reported by those who claim to have attended churches that are pastored by good buddies of Piper.

• Women must ask their husband’s permission to attend Bible study.
• Women must drop what they are doing and bring coffee to their husbands at work as soon as they are commanded. (A game a few pastors played to “show” the obedience of their wives.”
• Women should sit in the back of the church.
• Women should not go to college.
• Daughters should stay at home with daddy until they are married and should tend to daddy’s needs.
• Women should not teach baptized boys.

Before leaving this, I do want to post what was the first of about 200 comments the piece at TWW has received:

Sad as it sounds, I’ve heard women who killed their husbands and went to prison say they prefer prison to their life with their husband. When asked why, their response was that “at least they could go to the bathroom without asking.”

And this one:

When I was in the patriarchy “camp” for awhile there was this wild thing going about communion. Husbands would serve their wives and daughters communion at family-integrated church. If for some reason Papa wasn’t available to do so, then the oldest son or next oldest son would do it. Mama & daughters could not/should not go get their own communion.

And this:

John Piper is going to discover that he will be unable to dial back his acolytes after this many decades.

…In the Andy Stanley case or Jeff Bethke case we’re dealing with assumptions based on silence or omissions; a sermon illustration raises some parallel issues and instead of accepting the analogy we get lost in the periphery of the story.

In the case of John Piper, the directive is taken too far, the assumptions are based on what was said, but the effects are disastrous and detrimental.

I’m convinced the common link is people hearing and not hearing what they want or don’t want to hear.

Image: David Kreklau’s blog

Saturday Silliness: How to Tell if You’re a Megachurch

Carlos Whitaker at Ragamuffin Soul, a definite insider on this issue, nails it with this checklist:

• You might be a megachurch is your green room looks nicer that 95% of your attendees living rooms.

• You might be a megachurch if you film sermon video illustrations on location in other countries.

• You might be a megachurch if people take celebrity pictures of the pastor during his sermon.

• You might be a megachurch if you have more people on staff to run a Sunday than American Idol has on staff to run a Wednesday.

• You might be a megachurch if kids throw a tantrum when the moving lights aren’t working in their Sunday School.

• You might be a megachurch if your pastor has had more work done than most of the women in your church.

• You might be a megachurch if your worship department has not one single ugly person in it.

• You might be a megachurch if your pastors security detail mimics the Secret Service.

• You might be a megachurch if there are more police officers directing traffic into your parking lot than manning the streets of your neighborhood on a Sunday morning.

Thanks, Carlos.  Now then, click over to his blog and read the additional definitions his readers came up with…    No, really, you must read the comments.