Thinking Out Loud

November 23, 2018

I Kissed Dating Goodbye: The Survivors Speak Out

So again, when I posted a piece on Tuesday about the upcoming documentary film based on the variety of experiences of readers of  I Kissed Dating Goodbye, I had no idea that the film was actually going live online in a matter of minutes. I quickly signed up to watch I Survived I Kissed Dating Goodbye, and here we are just a few days later returning to the topic.

What I wrote on Tuesday was about the notion that even though an author changes his or her mind on a previously written book; it doesn’t guarantee that readers will want to travel on that same journey. The line, “I think he’s wrong now;” has, honestly speaking, haunted me all week, and I’ve found myself seeing that person differently all week.

Joshua Harris’ wife: “It was a good book; well, I don’t know if I can say it was good book; it was a well-intentioned book.”

Harris talks about being thrust into the spotlight, and into the pastorate, at a very young age. But at the same time, he got married about a year after the book’s printing, and at a personal level, had moved beyond the tension implicit in being single. For the record, he didn’t kiss his wife before the wedding. The doubts about the book came much later.

Harris: “For a long time I was afraid to re-examine the book I’m best known for.”

I originally thought the book and this subsequent documentary was going to focus on the challenges of adopting the courtship model as opposed to the dating model. But really, much of the documentary is focused on the Purity Movement with programs like True Love Waits.

Christine Gardner: “What I found fascinating was the Evangelical church using sex to sell abstinence.

The film contains many Skype interviews with readers from around the world reflecting how the book helped or hurt them.

Harris: “A desire to make a message as effective as possible could actually mislead people.”

One thing that Joshua Harris notes is the importance that was placed on the book at the time, and the potential influence it would have if the book was given to you by a parent or a pastor. In those situations, there was less likelihood of being able to challenge the premise of the book.

The book also created a number of “weird” situations in churches and communities which were considered normal, and thereby caused any other type of situation to be considered abnormal.

Harris: “In trying to fix the problems of dating with the model of courtship, we created a new set of problems.”

Thomas Umstattd Jr. (to Harris): “The reality is the marriage rate in the church has dropped significantly… We’re just not getting married as a generation… You were not the only person writing on this topic; you weren’t the only person writing popular books on this topic.  I think what happened is, you had the best title.”

Umstattd sees the formulaic approach of the courtship model as being no different than the prosperity gospel.

Activist Elizabeth Esther: “It was held up as, ‘This is the gold standard by which you should live your life.’ It was kind of a money-back guarantee. If you do it this way you will have a marriage that is happy and fulfilling and have mind-blowing sex for the rest of your life…”

Joshua Harris then embarks on a study of how things work now, in the world of dating apps and hookup culture.

Harris: “Neither the strict rules of courtship, or the rejection of rules in Tinder meet the deepest longings of the human heart. Both of these extremes seem to share an exalted view of the role sex should play in our lives.”

Even though it’s a documentary, I run the risk of filling this page with spoilers. (I’d love to see a published transcript.) I wouldn’t want anyone who is interested in this to miss out on watching because I summarized too much here. I’ve hit some highlights from the first 45 minutes of the 75-minute film.

There is archival interview footage interspersed from the Canadian 100 Huntley Street television show. In the last half, Harris goes on to interview author Dale Kuehne, author Debra Hirsch, author Debra Fileta, and author Dannah Gresh. The latter surprised me — I’m familiar with her books — insofar as the great kinship she has with Harris in terms of also re-examining the purity emphasis of her writing and seminars.

Gresh: “We use the word purity as a synonym for virginity. It’s not. Not in the scriptures. I work with girls all the time who are virgins, but they’re very impure.”

The book definitely put a large number of young people into some very awkward situations because of the expectations it raised. As the film asks, what if your views on sex and relationships at the time you were 21 were used to shape an entire generation of Christian kids? Millions of kids? I can’t imagine being thrust into that role.

I’d probably rethink some of it when I was older and had more life experience. And more wisdom. 

Harris: “Coming to a place of seeing dating as healthy was a big step.”


• Your journey to buying the DVD or watching the film for free begins at this website. You’ll be emailed a code which will allow you to view the documentary.

I never discussed the movie production itself. The cinematography, the sound, lighting, scripting, pacing etc. are all first-rate. Producer/Director Jessica Van der Wyngaard is to be congratulated on an excellent project.

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November 20, 2018

When a Christian Author Has a Change in Thinking

For over 20 years, I’ve spent a minimum of two days per week in a Christian bookstore which my wife and I own. We’ve seen books come and go for reasons other than the normal life cycle of publishing. We’ve heard of authors having affairs. We’ve learned of writers who have adopted a position on an issue which makes their publishing contract untenable with their publisher. We’ve seen testimony and biography books where it was revealed the story would have been suited to the fiction section.

I Kissed Dating Goodbye by Joshua Harris is unique. The author asked for the books — there are at least three related titles that I’m aware of — to be withdrawn when the current inventory is exhausted. He feels that the book is not a helpful or healthy approach to boy/girl relationships before marriage and has worked with a documentary filmmaker to give voice to the readers who found taking his approach harmful and counterproductive. That documentary releases online today!

This does not for a moment change the minds of some people. There will be pockets of mostly conservative people throughout North America — the book’s primary audience — who will continue to follow a courtship model for their sons and daughters, which is often associated with the idea of early (young) marriage.

But it’s different when you discover you know one of them.

A longtime friend asked me to order two copies of Harris’ book for him. I know this person well, and while he’s not exactly an ultra conservative, he does take a traditional stand on some things. I asked if he was serious. I thought maybe it was a bit of a joke, or a test to see if I was aware of recent events. I explained that the author had withdrawn the book, though copies are still floating around.

He replied, “I think he’s wrong now.”

Didn’t see that coming, though in hindsight it’s not unthinkable. I just wonder what Joshua Harris would say to that? The idea that he had it right and has now been sucked into some liberal vortex.

In the end, I think both Harris and my friends need to follow their hearts, though it concerns me that some people felt it took their lives in a direction where they waited for their Prince(ss) Charming to come along and then he/she never showed up. It took away the opportunity to be proactive.

But are Millennials proactive? Many have cocooned into an online world where dating apps offer their only hope of making that opposite-sex connection. Should Helicopter Mom and Helicopter Dad be stepping into the situation setting up a courtship scenario with the future in-laws? 

On the other hand, some of the kids my friend works with are not from Christian families. There is value in the group activity situations which avoid the pressure of 1:1 evenings, but it is these very activities that Millennials seem to find uninteresting. To his credit, my friend works in trying to create environments which can involve these very kids, but once they attend, they need to know that it might be on them to take the initiative to connect with that person across the room.

Also, Joshua Harris didn’t know any Millennials when he wrote the book 15 years ago, in 2003. (He was in fact home-schooled and admits to not knowing much outside that milieu.) Some would argue that we need his model more now than ever. But some of the people who were the book’s collateral damage interviewed in the documentary would say we need less of that school of thought.


More info at I Survived I Kissed Dating Goodbye

May 9, 2016

Meet Evangelical Vaughn Ohlman: Ranker.com’s Worst Person of the Week

Girls-are-like-apples-on-trees

Image: Raw Story screenshot from Let Them Marry

vaughn-ohlman-photo-u1Last Wednesday we linked to a story at HomeschoolersAnonymous.com, a website we’ve been aware of for a long time. Two newer stories focused on concern over the invitation to early marriage advocate Vaughn Ohlman to speak at a homeschool conference, as well as an updated story concerning a decision by a Salvation Army camp in Kansas to retract a previous arrangement whereby his organization, Let Them Marry, would have hosted a “Get Them Married…” 3-day ‘conference’ at their facility. That got us curious, so we started to delve into the story on the weekend.

Let Them Marry has stripped their website to bare bones, apparently unable to handle the recent publicity.  More details were available at Vyckie Garrison’s Patheos blog No Longer Quivering which we’ve also been aware of for a long time. In a May 6th piece she links to an article in the Kansas City Star.

…Vaughn Ohlman, who works as an ambulance driver in Schulenberg, Texas, operates a blog and website devoted to “the idea of Christians focusing more on young, fruitful, Godly marriages – getting rid of some of so many of the obstacles that stand in the way,” he said in an e-mail.

According to biblical interpretations  posted on the site, supporters believe it best for girls to be married before age 20, and that their consent is not necessary.

“Scripture speaks of the father of the son ‘taking a wife’ for his son, and the father of the bride ‘giving’ her to her husband,” Ohlman writes, citing passages from Jeremiah, Judges, Ezra and other books.

“It gives example after example of young women being given to young men, without the young woman even being consulted, and often, in some of the most Godly marriages in Scripture, the young man is not consulted.”

How early should girls marry? For some, as young as age 13, says the Let Them Marry website.

According to Ohlman, a girl is ready for marriage when she has breasts, which “promise enjoyment for her husband.” A girl also should be “ready to bear children” and “ready for sexual intercourse sexually and emotionally,” Ohlman writes.

“We do not endorse marriage at ages as young as twelve.”

After news of the Wichita retreat began circulating online Thursday, Ohlman took to his blog to address critics who said the concept of the retreat was offensive and possibly illegal.

Under Kansas law, no one under the age of 15 can marry. Eighteen is the minimum age, although 16- and 17-year-olds can get married with parental consent…

Ohlman’s Book What Are You Doing? has a website (possibly also recently sanitized), and the Amazon page doesn’t provide previews. However there are two reader reviews:

I have often been tempted to write a book on covenant, Christian marriage that I would call, “I Kissed Courtship Goodbye.” The reason for the title would be to address a particular definition of courtship that in essence, operates as two families “dating” each other. It subconsciously goes something like this, “we’ll let our children court for awhile and see how things go, but if things don’t go the direction that we want to, or we discover that they just aren’t “compatible” we can just cut it off and there is no harm done.”… My wife’s and my relationship and attraction grew naturally and as time went by after our covenant making we both revealed and discovered how we, over time, came to the point where we could not see ourselves marrying anyone other than each other. That simple. Relationships are complicated. They are complicated because we complicate them. But as we grow spiritually, mature, and become more like Christ and wisely meditate on the words of God which were not spoken vain, we apply the principles resulting from this learned understanding to gradually and incrementally casting off the complications that man creates and simultaneously embrace the simplicity and beauty of God’s created order. “What are you Doing?” is a casual, and I believe, effective tool of exercising our minds to think more biblically in the realm of how two people covenant together in marriage…


…The basis of the book’s betrothal solution is that any man and woman who are not celibate and are willing to “do good” to a mate are eligible to be married to one another. Further, since this sexual interest is present, they should not seek a potential spouse themselves since that will inevitably lead to some sort of sexually charged relationship. Even a merely verbal relationship will lead to sexual thoughts that defraud the couple if they do not eventually become man and wife. Therefore, the fathers should be the ones to initiate any possible discussions of marriage. The man and woman can certainly have a friendly relationship, but considering each other as potential mates can lead to trouble.

Some will decry the involvement of parents in the choice of a spouse as “arranged marriage”. But careful readers will understand that the author is not proposing a medieval plot where a young girl is chained in a dungeon awaiting puberty and marriage to a toothless old man. Rather, sensible families will welcome a reintroduction of a multi-generational vision in which parents guide their children through life’s major milestones…

Ohlman’s own daughter-in-law describes the process in her blog PrinceCharmingDiapers.com in a post entitled The Betrothal Story:

…I should note that people often get the impression that we got married on blind faith, simply trusting that God would miraculously sort out any difficulties which came along afterwards. I think this is, in large part, a product of people’s own insecurities: they cannot imagine trusting in a vetting process in which they did not directly participate. But when I say “months” of communication went between the two fathers, I hope it’s obvious that we weren’t doing anything on “blind faith”.

Indeed, what really happened is that Joshua and I trusted our respective fathers to do the vetting for us… and to do a much better job than we could have done. Our dads weren’t dealing with raging hormones, crazy emotions, or an overwhelming desire to ignore important issues simply for the sake of getting married. My dad was able to take a serious look at Joshua’s character in a way I would have been unequipped (and unlikely) to do.

Finally, the entire Ohlman family -excluding Joshua- arrived one Wednesday in August (Joshua couldn’t fly in until Friday due to work). The days before Joshua arrived were mildly awkward because everyone was pretending they didn’t know what was going on and that the Ohlmans, a family from Texas, “just happened” to have stopped by to visit a family they’d never met before… in Michigan. At the same time, however, our families hit it off immediately and we felt like life-long friends right away.

When Joshua finally arrived my dad met him at the airport, took him out to lunch, and “grilled” him. Satisfied that he’d done his due diligence, my dad brought Joshua home and introduced him to us all. Dad then took me on a walk and nervously asked me to assure him I was all right being betrothed to someone who was still, emotionally and practically, a stranger. I assured him that I was more than “all right” with it and that I had already grown to love his family.

Less than two hours later we held a small ceremony in our back yard. My dad and Mr. Ohlman gave a short sermon/admonition, each to their respective children… and then my dad put my hand in Joshua’s, thereby giving me away to the man I henceforth have had the privilege of calling my husband! Barring family members, I had never held a man’s hand before. It was so special to do so with only one man, and only after being covenanted with him for life.

I can’t tell you how deliriously happy I was at that point. To have blissfully skipped through all of the nerves, awkwardness, and — even worse — possible heartbreak of courtship in just two hours. To be completely secure in my relationship with Joshua from day one…

Ohlman’s blog, The Practical Theonomist records the text of the covenant — this is the first half — as posted in August, 2013:

It is with great joy in the mighty blessing of the Lord that we, the undersigned, in obedience to God do Covenant or Witness thereto that:
Joshua Phillip Ohlman
and
Laura Marie Camp
Are this  the 23rd day of August, 2013 bound in the sight of God and man in the unbreakable Covenant of Betrothal; are now husband and wife to each other; and await the blessed day when they will come together physically.
In this covenant we bind ourselves or our children to the following:
A lifelong continual sexual union in which the body of each spouse belongs to the other.
A union which shall be ever open to the blessing of children; and where the children shall be raised in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
A union in which the husband shall love his wife, as Christ loves the Church; washing her in the water of the word.
A union in which the wife shall love and respect her husband, love her children, and keep the home; helping raise her children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
A union, under Christ, with the husband as its head, the wife as his submissive helpmeet, and the children bound in obedience to their parents…

On the Progressive Atheist channel at Patheos, the blog Progressive Secular Humanist was able to capture some of the scriptural basis for Let Them Marry before the website was wiped:

Doesn’t a legitimate marriage require the consent of both the people marrying?

Scripture speaks of the father of the son “taking a wife” for his son, and the father of the bride “giving” her to her husband (Jeremiah 29: 6; Judges 21: 7; Ezra 9:12; Nehemiah 10: 30; 1 Corinthians 7:36-38). It gives example after example of young women being given to young men, without the young woman even being consulted…

A “bride price” is anything paid or given by the man or his representative at the time of his betrothal or receiving his bride.

Scripture certainly teaches about it… The law concerning bride price (Exodus 22:16-17) indicates that . . . the bride price was a normal part of the marriage process.

The bride price plays a significant function: It shows the woman’s value, and the point isn’t that the father gets the money but that he keeps it for his daughter, if her husband should ever abandon her.

At the website ChristianToday.com, we learn there is also an historical claim:

Perhaps his most controversial teaching is his advocacy of “young marriage”. He cites Calvin’s view that a woman is in “the flower of her age” between 12 and 20, John Gill’s figure of 12 and a half and Martin Luther’s of 15-18. However, he says: “We do not endorse marriage at ages as young as twelve,” and he flatly denies endorsing paedophilia. He adds: “But we are certainly in agreement with the commentators that marriage (in order to be timely and to accomplish its purposes) ought to happen before the age of twenty for almost everyone.”

While Ohlman’s website has been cleaned up, we do have the benefit of a Google Cache of his FAQ page. This question and answer were carefully worded:

Can a betrothed couple sleep together? No one that is not betrothed should have sex. Such sex is either fornication, adultery, or sexually perverse (as in Sodomy).

What is usually meant by this question is if the couple who is ONLY betrothed can have intercourse, or engage in other sexual activities. My answer would be that the action is legal but not possible.

You see, what separates being ‘only betrothed’ and being fully married is the consummation. So the question is kind of like asking if you can paint on a blank canvas. You are allowed to, obviously, assuming it is your canvas, but if you do it isn’t blank.

Traditionally, including Biblical tradition, the time of consummation includes a celebration called a wedding, marriage supper, marriage feast, or the like. The friends and family of the bride and groom come together to celebrate the new sexual union, the potential for offspring, the joining of the families, and the like. In our modern age we have come, erroneously, to see that ‘wedding’ as the event that authorizes the physical joining (at least in the Church—the world now largely sees the ‘consent’ of the couple as what authorizes sexual union, consent focused on an event by event and sometimes even intra-event basis—a complex subject and beyond the scope of this FAQ).

But Biblically, this was not so. Of those marriages where we have some details, only some of them take place in the context of some kind of celebration. And no law requires, or even hints at, these celebrations. Instead, it speaks of special protections for the betrothed man, so that he can immediately consummate with his new wife before going off to battle, etc.

So there’s an overview, all of which brings us to Ranker.com’s #1 rating of Vaughn Ohlman as the week’s worst person

So is this just a fringe movement? Again at Patheos blog, Love, Joy, Feminism, writer Libby Anne writes:

I really wish I could just gawk at this, I really do, but I was homeschooled and I knew families who were into things like this. If this had been around when I was a teen, it is very likely that families I knew would have gone—and it is barely possible that my own family might have considered it (though I very much hope they wouldn’t have). These are real people we’re talking about, and the number of fellow homeschool alumni I know who entered into early marriages like these and are now divorced seems to be growing by the month. Need I add that young women typically exit these marriages with little in the way of education, skills, or career prospects?


Media coverage: The video below contains some errors; online consensus seems to be that Ohlman is not connected to the Duggar Family. Warning: There are also language issues in the commentary.

 

March 27, 2013

Wednesday Link List

Forgivenall

Our opening image this week apparently dates back to the mid ’90s and was sourced on a Dutch website whose name translates approximately as End Time Space. Click the image to link.

Several possible links for this week were important enough to become their own posts here. Be sure to check back at topics covered since Thursday.

  • First, please consider following my Twitter feed; not because of my great wisdom, but because I’m following some other really cool people. 
  • The radio host of “Canada’s most listened-to spiritual talkback show,” Drew Marshall takes to television this weekend. 
  • Is the Pope Catholic?  This blogger dares to ask: Is the Pope born again
  • Here’s a good breakdown of pastor blogs fitting into ten (or eleven!) categories. Actually, blogs, Twitter, Facebook, etc.
  • Just in time for Passover, the Maccabeats are back.
  • If you or someone you know has been involved in a marital affair, here’s a reminder to skip the what questions and look at the why questions.
  • This week the Dictionary of Christianese defines Godincidences. (They’re like God Winks.)
  • This has been around for awhile, but if you haven’t watched this timely 3-minute video, check out Peter Rollins’ I Deny The Resurrection
  • A Canadian Mennonite pastor is dealing with a couple of strange baptism requests: “They don’t know much about Jesus, but they want to come to him, to sign up to follow, even though they don’t have much of an idea what they are getting into.”
  • One hundred and eleven podcasts later, and you can still listen to episodes of A Christian and An Atheist.
  • Here’s a good analysis on how the church should multiply (real growth) instead of simply poaching (transfer growth) from other churches.
  • And on that same blog we found a link to a piece on how tradition(s) can trump what Jesus explicitly taught
  • Know a single who is saving their first kiss? You might identify with this video trailer, but trailer for what? (Found at TWW.)
  • Russell Moore is asked whether or not reading fiction is a waste of time. He answers that fiction can  “awaken parts of us that we have calloused over.”
  • And congrats to Russell on his new title with the SBC.
  • Pete Wilson and Cross Point Church have invaded downtown Nashville. Their new church building opened this past Sunday.
  • For gay Christians, the F-word is fear.  Read this two part post starting with the article and then, especially the author’s story.
  • Pastors’ Corner: Five sources of ministry distractions, including Platform Jacking and Funny Money.
  • If you’re thinking of being in Vancouver, British Columbia from July 29 to August 2, 2013, you could sign up for this business ethics course.
  • When you are trying to make it as a writer, a rejection letter can be crushing, and create a need to reaffirm your calling.

preaching-to-choir_from fritzcartoons-dot-com

June 13, 2009

Hot Off The Presses

donald miller book

Our Book is Out!

Check out the picture at right.   Impressive, huh?  Notice my name as coauthor?  Wait ’til my family sees this.   They used a larger typeface for my name than I thought they would! How would you like to be the coauthor of Donald Miller’s new book?  Well you can.   Sort of.   Fresh off their blog and Facebook promotion for Andy Andrews’ The Noticer, Michael Hyatt, CEO of Thomas Nelson is at it again, and it’s not even April Fools Day.   You not only get to pretend to be Miller’s coauthor, but you get a webpage with your name on the introduction and your comments on what it was like to work with Donald.   You then blog it or e-mail it to your friends.   You can read my page here.   Join the prank at Hyatt’s blog, here.

Play that Worship Music, white boy

Chris Vacher, who blogs at Chris from Canada questions whether a high profile worship event purporting to represent “worldwide” worship and involving “all peoples” is living up to its goals when, without exception, every advertised participant is very white.    Read his thoughts here.

9 Simple Rules for Not Dating My Teenage Daughter

Tony Miano blogs at The Lawman Chronicles.  On the occasion of both of his daughters’ community college graduation, he talks about the qualities necessary for someone to ask for the girls’ hands in marriage.   Tony doesn’t believe in dating.   To paraphrase the title of the Josh Harris book, he’s kissed the concept goodbye.   But this may be new for some of you.  In one of the comments, he elaborates:

I don’t expect my daughters to identify a potential man to marry. I expect that young man to identify himself, since he will be pursuing my daughter and not the other way around. I also expect (and trust) the Lord to give us the collective wisdom and discernment as a family to recognize that man as the one He has chosen for my daughter.
Once that man is identified (using not only my list of requirements; but also my daughter’s list of requirements), and we (my wife, daughter, and I) agree that a courtship should take place, with the goal being marriage, then I would give consent for the man to court my daughter.

You can read the post here.   Just be careful if you leave any comments.   Tony is a policeman.   He knows where you live!

We interrupt this sermon…

Has your pastor ever stood up in the pulpit and said that he had a sermon all prepared, but God is leading him to share something entirely different?  While it does happen, it doesn’t stop Jon Acuff, at the blog Stuff Christians Like, from having some fun with what’s become a staple of evangelical life.   You can read his post here.   And if you missed this one from May 29th, Jon has guest blogger Tyler Stanton share “The Essential Cast of a Great Missions Trip,” just in time for summer.

And finally, a public service announcement

This is actually from 2007, but I thought I’d leave a reward for those of you still clicking.   Via YouTube, here it is.

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