Married Couples Holding Hands in Church: No Big Deal, Right?

Different denominations have different ideas as to the appropriateness of what are sometimes called PDA — public displays of affection — in the context of Christian camps or youth group meetings. Any rules that might exist are usually put in place with the intention of applying them to teens and twenty-somethings. Some churches have very strict standards on this, while in others, you’re probably wondering why this topic is even here today.

Hand holding is a mark of commitment. If people want to know if it is true that the divorced usher on the east aisle is seeing the alto in the choir, walking in arm and arm should clear up that mystery in a hurry. In the context of gay relationships, in addition to being a gesture of affection, hand holding is really making the statement, ‘Yes, we are gay;’ and so doing this in church is a bold declaration of that situation.

But today I’m not looking at PDAs as physical signs of relational status updates nor am I as concerned with the puppy love in the youth group. I’m talking about couples who have been married for some time and have nothing they’re trying to broadcast by being affectionate.

A few years ago I attended three different church services on a single Sunday. I am always aware of men who put their arms around their wives during the service — and sometimes it’s the other way around — and there are times I do this myself. Whether the church in question has pews or chairs, I like to stretch out anyway, so whether there is an empty seat or it’s my wife sitting next to me, I am likely to do this, though I probably have my arm around her less than half the duration of the sermon.

On the other hand — pun intended — there are the couples who sit really close and the hug lasts the duration of the sermon. (Except in summer in one church I visit which has no air conditioning.) I always see this as a church service = movie date type of posture. I would hope that in worship we see ourselves as standing before God individually even though as we sing we are worshiping corporately. The worship time is our personal response to God, and not something I can do with my spouse. (A possible exception might be if the worship leader invites everyone to join hands and sing a classic like “We are One in the Spirit,” or “Father Make Us One.”) I would also like to believe that in an ideal world, during the sermon we are busy taking notes, or looking up passages in our Bibles or Bible apps, even when the words are on the screen.

I also believe that during the actual time of the service, our “arm around” is broadcasting more than we realize.

• It says to everyone that we are happy and committed. (Oh, if only they could see the chaos just ten minutes before we left home!) So in that sense, we are modeling what we consider to be the normal husband/wife relationship. We’re saying that the church family is a place where we are free to express that. It might be the only time we’ve had all week to just sit together.
• It possibly serves as a major distraction however to singles. It could be a jarring reminder that they are sitting alone; that they have no such relationship; no hand to hold. I’m not sure this is the intention, but with all the other things the church does which tends to cater to couples with 2.4 children, I’m not sure we need one more. (Especially the one where, at the end of the benediction, the couple shares a quick kiss.)
• It does equate to something we might do at a concert, play or movie. In that sense, we are saying that we are observers; that we are the audience; when the worship environment should be one where we are participants.
• It gives the aforementioned kids in the youth group unspoken permission to do the same, which when combined with the current trend toward low lighting levels in our modern auditoriums, should beg all kinds of other questions. Can teens with raging hormones get all turned on while the preacher is discussing righteousness and judgment? (It’s a rhetorical question.)

So while I realize the intentions and motivation in the first case may be pure enough, and while I hate to be The Grinch that ruined the only moment of affection you and the significant other had all week; the second, third and fourth points seem to suggest a more conservative approach. I’m not saying you won’t catch me next Sunday with my arm around my wife, but it’s good to occasionally stop and think our actions through.

What do you think?
Any stories to tell on this subject?

Breast Feeding in the Church Sanctuary

After debating several possibilities, the editorial team at Thinking Out Loud decided to play it safe with some classical art

It must be an April thing, because last year at this time, we asked the question, Should Couples Hold Hands in Church?

Now we want to look at a question which is often a hot button issue in some churches, that of mothers nursing their babies in the church auditorium or sanctuary. So just to be clear let’s make some definitions:

• This would be happening as a worship service is in progress
• We’re assuming a certain amount of modesty is in place; there is an attempt to use discretion and keep everything as covered-up as possible. (Or is that the problem where you attend? Are some moms simply not attempting enough covering?)
• The woman in question is not sitting in the front row serving as a distraction to the pastor or worship team. (Unless, again, that’s the problem; though it’s hard to believe anyone would actually do this.)
• There are no children or (especially) teens who might be overly distracted by the very hint of this. (Middle school boys are at an age where boobs are an obsession.)
  
• The baby is not fussing, crying or providing any type of audio distraction. (Think of Maggie on The Simpsons.)
  
• There isn’t a room for this purpose (ideally with opaqued glass) off to the side of the auditorium.
• The mom isn’t a visitor (unless that’s specific to a problem with this at your church) so she’s been around the church for years and knows the drill.

Does that cover it? (No pun intended.)

So what do you think? Are there options that would allow for this, or is it a definite “no” as far you’re concerned?

Has there been a shift on this over the last few years in your church?

And where am I gonna find a picture for this article? 

The question, just to be clear, is: Do you consider breastfeeding in church appropriate or inappropriate?  Is this a divisive issue where you worship?

 

Should Couples Hold Hands in Church?

Different denominations have different ideas as to the appropriateness of what is sometimes called PDA — public displays of affection — in the context of Christian camps or youth group meetings. Any rules that might exist are usually put in place with the intention of applying them to teens and twenty-somethings. Some churches have very strict standards on this, while in others, you’re probably wondering why this topic is here today.

Hand holding is a mark of commitment. If people want to know if it is true that the divorced usher on the east aisle is seeing the alto in the choir, walking in arm and arm should clear up that mystery in a hurry. In the context of gay relationships, in addition to being a gesture of affection, hand holding is really making the statement, ‘Yes, we are gay;’ and so doing this in church is a bold declaration of that situation.

But today I’m not looking at PDAs as physical status updates nor am I as concerned with the puppy love in the youth group. I’m talking about couples who have been married for some time and have nothing they’re trying to broadcast by being affectionate.

Yesterday I attended three different church services. I am always aware of men who put their arms around their wives during the service — and sometimes it’s the other way around — and there are times I do this myself. Whether the church in question has pews or chairs, I like to stretch out anyway, so whether there is an empty seat or it’s my wife sitting next to me, I am likely to do this, though I probably have my arm around her less than half the duration of the sermon.

On the other hand — pun intended — there are the couples who sit really close and the hug lasts the duration of the sermon.  (Except in summer in one church I visit which has no air conditioning.) I always see this as a church service = movie date type of posture. I would hope that in worship we see ourselves as standing before God individually even though as we sing we are worshiping corporately. The worship time is our personal response to God, and not something I can do with my spouse. (A possible exception might be if the worship leader invites everyone to join hands and sing a classic like “We are One in the Spirit,” or “Father Make Us One.”) I would also like to believe that in an ideal world, during the sermon we are busy taking notes, or looking up passages in our Bibles, even when the words are on the screen.

I also believe that during the actual time of the service, our “arm around” is broadcasting more than we realize.

• It says to everyone that we are happy and committed. (Oh, if only they could see the chaos just ten minutes before we left home!) So in that sense, we are modeling what we consider to be the normal husband/wife relationship. We’re saying that the church family is a place where we are free to express that. It might be the only time we’ve had all week to just sit together.
• It possibly serves as a major distraction however to singles. It could be a jarring reminder that they are sitting alone; that they have no such relationship; no hand to hold. I’m not sure this is the intention, but with all the other things the church does which tends to cater to couples with 2.4 children, I’m not sure we need one more. (Especially the one where, at the end of the benediction, the couple shares a quick kiss.)
• It does equate to something we might do at a concert, play or movie. In that sense, we are saying that we are observers; that we are the audience; when the worship environment should be one where we are participants.
• It gives the aforementioned kids in the youth group unspoken permission to do the same, which when combined with the current trend toward low lighting levels in our modern auditoriums, should beg all kinds of other questions. Can teens with raging hormones get all turned on while the preacher is discussing righteousness and judgment? (It’s a rhetorical question.)

So while I realize the intentions and motivation in the first case may be pure enough, and while I hate to be The Grinch that ruined the only moment of affection you and the significant other had all week; the second, third and fourth points seem to suggest a more conservative approach. I’m not saying you won’t catch me next Sunday with my arm around my wife, but it’s good to occasionally stop and think our actions through.

What do you think?
Any stories to tell on this subject?

 

 

Wednesday Link List

Random screenshot from this week’s Phil Vischer Podcast even though there’s no reference to it in the link list, because, honestly, we didn’t have a picture this week. Left to right: Phil, Christian Taylor and Skye Jethani (Click image to watch)

Each installment of the link list takes on a different flavor, and this one is no exception. No, that’s not right, it is an exception, that’s what makes it different. (Maybe I should have gone with the “no two snowflakes are the same” intro.) 

Clicking anything below will take to PARSE, who own the link list, then click the items there you wish to view.

• Okay, hands up everybody who knows where the Bible verse numbers came from?
• Here’s another Bible translation teaser: If you haven’t heard of the Modern Evangelical Version or the Hebrew Roots Bible, then you might want to follow The Bible Hunter.
• OverviewBible.com is an infographic project typified by this one, listing every dream in the Bible.
• Your mileage may vary: Not everyone will agree with all twelve points in this list of things preachers can learn from TEDTalk presenters.
• According to this writer, the ideal Christian radio station would include portions of intentionally dead air.
• Christianity Today talks to Brian Brodersen, successor to Calvary Chapel’s Chuck Smith. (They didn’t always agree.)
• Ready to quit the ministry? This writer speaks from the experience of crossing over to the dark side, with a knowledge of what happens after you submit the resignation.
• The Catholic Church is bolstering their ranks of trained exorcists.
• Sermon of the Week: From early last month, Gary W. Burge talks the Willow Creekers through the familiar ground of Psalm 23.
• J. D. Greear explains why planting additional campus locations might make more sense than planting new churches.
• Megachurch pastor Perry Noble goes public on taking anti-depressants for anxiety issues.
• A few weeks ago we looked at U2charist, but that was before we had heard of having a Hank Williams mass.
• Seven-time author Becky Garrison suggests that Mark Driscoll has been altering the history of his church, rendering it more of a one-man accomplishment.
• “You never think you’re in a cult when you’re in a cult.” A reminiscence of growing up under Bill Gothard’s teaching.
• Emmy award-winning Actress Patricia Heaton from ABC-TV’s The Middle on Christians in Hollywood.
• The latest abuse-of-children allegations are being pointed at Chicago’s Jesus People USA. The community birthed the Cornerstone Festival and Resurrection Band. The complaints against JPUSA form part of a 90-minute documentary.
• The lead singer of the band As I Lay Dying pleaded guilty last week to hiring a hit man to kill his wife.
• On my own blog this week, creating an online social media index for your church family; and a book review of Is Sunday School Destroying Our Kids, a short indie book that grew on me the more I read it.
• From the vault, one year ago, eight issues that don’t make or break Christianity.
• This one is worth consideration: A short essay on the proper and virtuous application of hate.
• I never thought about God as “the beginning and the end” as being less like a line and more like a circle. Another wrestling through ‘If God made everything who made God?’
• Many leadership blogs encourage aspiring authors to start building an online platform, but that goal is fraught with spiritual dangers.
• Tech stuff: This article is about the pursuit of excellence in our weekend services, but I especially love the title: Leading Worship from the Booth.
• With both the Olympics and Superbowl in the rear view mirror, David Platt laments our idolatry of sports.
• Does the church need to have a distinct ministry to its youth subculture?
• Yes, the Pope did say a bad word in Sunday’s sermon. (Confusing two similar Italian words is easy if it’s not your first language.)
• Writing from a country where we don’t have flags in our churches, it’s tough to grasp the religious significance of this type of story.
• Randy Alcorn on how we dress up, or dress down for church.
• The Son of God movie is going to have its detractors in the Christian blogosphere, of which this one is representative…
• …the same type of sentiment that resulted in the Noah movie adding a disclaimer…
• …while in other Noah news, Ken Ham is going ahead with plans to build an ark, at a cost of $73 million.
• Biomedical Ethics: The UK is moving toward a fertilization method that would result in three-parent babies.
• Finally, remember when the pastor told you to take John 3:16 and write your name in it? (“For God so loved Bill…”) Well, now you can have your name inserted in over 7,000 places.

Like I said, no time for picture shopping this week, so Mrs. W. suggested we mine the vault for classics: