Thinking Out Loud

February 3, 2011

Deconversion: Because Crossing the Line of Faith Works Both Ways

I’ve been reading the blog, Losing my Religion by Jeff McQuilkin since long before I started one of my own.  Maybe he had me at the title.  Jeff’s blog has always been at the leading edge of discussions on the issue of faith and doubt.

This one is a longer post, it might take you a good five minutes at least, and then I hope you’ll also track with the comments people have left there.  It’s about two people he knows of which one (to use language we use in this blog) is moving away from the cross while the other is moving toward the cross.

It’s also about faith that it is intellectual versus faith that goes beyond the mind.  It’s about objective absolute truth versus the subjectivity of belief based on empirical evidence.

It’s about you.  It’s about me.


Not long ago, I was browsing through my Google Reader, kind of sorting through and unsubscribing from blogs that had become inactive, and I came across a “good-bye” post from a fellow blogger. He had been struggling with his faith for some time, and I’d tracked with him for awhile because he had expressed such honesty and candor about his doubts and his feelings. This post was several months old (I was admittedly behind in my reading), but he’d written a good-bye post to close out this particular blog because he had finally decided there was no God, and he was now an atheist. Since the blog was about struggling with faith, and for him there was no more faith to struggle with, he’d moved on to write a new blog about atheism.

When I read his words, my heart sank in grief, and I felt like I’d been kicked in the gut. I only know this person from his writing–I don’t think we’d ever even commented on one another’s blogs–but I felt this profound sense of loss, and I grieved for my brother who had struggled so long and had come to such a sad conclusion. I say “sad,” because when I look at my own life and struggles, I cannot imagine the amount of sorrow I would feel if I ever came to the conclusion that there had been no divine purpose in it all, that all this time I’d been muddling through on my own, that there was really no One watching out for me. Never mind the implications of the afterlife–even the idea of living in the here-and-now with no belief in God (especially if belief was once there) is a completely devastating thought to me. This is why I grieved so for my brother who had lost his faith.

I am acquainted with another atheist for whom I don’t feel the same sense of grief and loss; in fact, I feel a bit of hope. In hearing him talk about his own struggles with faith, it’s actually apparent that he wants to believe. He’s not a militant atheist, and is friendly to Christians, even admires them; he says that the only thing that really keeps him from crossing the line into faith is that he is so analytical that he can’t get his mind around the idea of the supernatural. In short, his logical mind gets in the way.

From my perspective, the biggest difference between these two atheists is the direction the struggle for faith is taking them. For the latter, I think his path is ultimately toward Christ; he would totally be a Christ-follower if he could just overcome the mental block, and I have hope that one day this will happen for him. For the former, he’s coming from the opposite direction–he once had faith (or at least belief), but got disillusioned, and for one reason or another his doubts were never satisfied. So he walked away from Christ.

But despite this difference…

…continue reading here…

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November 11, 2010

Contradicting Bible Contradictions

Ever seen this picture before?

It’s hard to miss it if you were to look recently at atheist or agnostic blogs or websites.   It’s a graph of alleged Bible contradictions.    It originates with Project-Reason.org and can be seen in detail by clicking this link, and then enlarging the magnification in your .pdf viewer.

But as a commenter at Fight the Faith points out, some of them are a bit of a stretch:

Want to point out that some of these don’t make much sense. For instance:

#359. Is all scripture inspired by God? 2tim 3:16 ≠ 1cor 7:12, 7:25

2 Timothy 3:16 is, indeed, about scripture being inspired by god. 1 Corinthians 7:12 and 7:25, however, are about when it’s OK to divorce your spouse.

Which is what we expect is the case with many others in the list.

Often, people will say, “The Bible is full of contradictions;” but then when you ask them to name one, they can’t.   Of course, others take a more scholarly approach, which is why we were excited to find the website, Contradicting Bible Contradictions.    Pay a visit and click on the numbered, item-by-item look at these textual conflicts listed in the links on the right side of the page in groups of ten.

On another website, Bible Answers Today, we read:

Yes, I know that people had stated that they have found contradictions in the Bible. However, if you look at the Bible as a whole, and the context in which these “contradictions” occur, you will find that these so called contradictions are not contradictions at all.

Sometimes it is interesting to see how atheists and Christians alike deal with the seeming imperfections of an inerrant book.   On the Christian side, we tend to consign difficulties to the realm of “mystery” or “the deeper things of God.”   We remind each other that “we see through a glass darkly.”

Those answers, when spoken by someone who views the world through the eyes of faith are quite satisfying.   But they don’t sit well with the broader population.  This comment at Science Blogs – Pharyngula is interesting:

Hey, wait a minute, I have a book here by someone called Norman Geisler who assures us that god’s word is perfect. He has a ready answer for every “seeming” contradiction found throughout the Bible… I can’t help thinking that maybe if the Lord had been more careful in writing his word, apologists like Geisler, William Lane Craig, etc. wouldn’t be necessary (they’d be out of a job). But as the Lord, whose ways are indeed mysterious, has seen fit to write a book that is, among other things, full of contradictions, apologists are an absolute necessity…So an infallible and omniscient god evidently needs the help of fallible apologists… Interesting.

Of course it’s actually true in a sense.   God does, in fact, choose to work hand-in-hand with his created beings.   He creates a variety of animals, but asks Adam to name them.   An interesting partnership, don’t you think?

Here’s something from the blog Best Dog Health Center (seriously…the things you find on Google Blog Search!)  where I’ve added some emphasis:

There is a classic example of “contradiction” in Proverbs 26; 4 -5: ” vs. 4: Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. vs. 5: Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.” What’s the answer then to this glaring contradiction? It is found in Ecclesiastes 3;7 “…a time to keep silence, and a time to speak…”. The thing we have to remember is that while there may be many “contradictions” in the Bible there are no untruths. The contradiction is actually in our minds in our understanding of the Bible and not in the Bible itself.

Dave at the blog The Bible: Contradicition or Confirmation has this written on the masthead which appears on every blog page:

Taking a look at the would be contradictions some say are in the Bible There are well over 200 so called contradictions in the Bible. I have had the chance over the years to take a close look at many of them. I must say, thus far I have found that none of them hold water.

L.J. Kim at City Fellowship Community Church in downtown New York has a good attitude toward all this:

Not-having contradictions doesn’t actually “prove” that it’s true…does it?  I don’t believe in the Book of Mormon, and I don’t agree with Marx’s communist manifesto, but I have no problem with the claim that they do not contradict themselves…  It would be silly to try to disprove communism by looking for contradictions…

Some people seem bent on finding Bible contradictions so that they can say that God isn’t real…  But if I were to forge a make-believe history, it would be easy enough to make sure there were no self-contradictions.  ”Star Wars” is a made-up story without contradictions…

But what about ________ ?  Isn’t that a contradiction you ask?  The Bible has two kinds of apparent contradictions…

Real accounts of historical events, even when they’re accurate can have “apparent” contradictions.  One person said he came home from LA, another person said he drove home from the airport, yet another says he took a cab.  Contradictions?  Not necessarily…  They’re all describing the same event. So if you’re into crime drama’s, one eyewitness account of a homicide might say that the person’s brains were blown out, another says he was shot, and the coroner’s report says he died of asphyxiation…  These can all be accurate accounts of the same event…

The other kind of apparent contradiction is the kind that asks us to look more closely, to think more deeply…  In order to save your life you must first lose it.  In order to really live, one must take up the Cross…

Sometimes the only approach is to sit down with someone and deal with each individual objection, one by one, as in this post at Frances and Friends:

For instance, there are several seemingly contradictory Passages about what happens when men gaze upon the Face of God, etc. St. John 1:18 says, “No man has seen God at any time” and Exodus 33:20 says, “And God said, You cannot see My Face: for there shall no man see Me, and live.” Yet, in Genesis 32:30 it says, “And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face.” Further, Exodus 33:11 says, “And the LORD spoke unto Moses face to face, as a man speaks unto his friend.” Which is correct?

What most of us fail to realize is that the word “seen” or “see” also means “to comprehend” or “to understand.” So, the Verse in St. John does not contradict the Verses in Genesis and Exodus at all. What John was saying was that no man has ever comprehended or understood everything about God – not at any time. We use the same kind of terminology in our conversations today. For instance, we will explain something to someone and then say, “Do you see?” But we don’t really mean “see,” as to look with the natural eye. We simply mean, “Do you understand? Do you comprehend?” So there is clearly no contradiction here.

I post that, knowing it was written by Jimmy Swaggart, a man whose life was at times one giant contradiction.  (Yes, I could have left that author information out, but chose not to.)    It’s a valid answer to the particular question, and a valid response to how we can deal with these things if we’re provided the necessary context.

I’ve heard it said that of all the alleged contradictions in the Bible, most are about numbers, measurements, the location of cities etc.; and only two have a bearing on doctrine, theology, or anything that actually matters to the study of Christianity.

How far do you go if you’re determined to write off the Bible?   In Psalms it uses the phrase, “From the sun’s rising…” and we could argue that the sun doesn’t actually rise, but the earth rotates.   But is the phrase invalid if we still continue to use it in the year 2011?

I’m told my grandmother’s contemporaries used a rather strange phrase, “looking for the hair in the egg.”  It means approaching the situation determined that there are difficulties and problems beforehand.   It’s not about whether or not there is actually a “hair in the egg;” whatever that means, but about the attitude with which people approach certain aspects of life.

I don’t think any chart of “Bible contradictions” is sufficient to sway me from a book which is like no other.   The Jewish approach to scripture was to consider it a jewel, like a large, rare diamond that refracted the light differently each time it was examined.    That’s the kind of book it is.

I like to think of the scriptures in terms of those 3D pictures they often sold at shopping mall kiosks before Christmas.   You would stare and stare, and then suddenly another image would come into view.    Only with the Bible there are multiplied images waiting to be discovered.

I’m sorry if that defies logic and reasoning, but you can’t un-convince me of the reality of my faith.

April 5, 2010

Bus Ads: A New Twist On An Old Media


What is it with Evangelism and buses?

First there was last year’s Atheist bus advertising in London which spun off similar campaigns elsewhere.  (And this bus ad of our own!)

Now it’s Toronto.   An organization called Bus Stop Bible Studies ran a series of transit ads with one of them — asking “Does God Care if I’m Gay” — sparking outrage both from without and within the Evangelical community, to the point where the website for that particular topic in the series has been pulled offline.

Here’s the story as it appeared in The Toronto Star;   a look at some of the content of the online response as it appears at Torontoist.com, who we also thank for the above picture; and a blogitorial from Wendy Gritter of New Direction, a ministry organization to the gay and lesbian community, who wishes her group had been consulted first.    (New Direction’s DVD was featured in this blog’s link list in July, 2009.)

A year ago, while doing some further editing to my resource on pornography, I spent some time reading the blogs of people who were both identifying as gay and also identifying as passionate about Jesus Christ.   The more I learn about this issue and get to know people through their online writing, the more complex it becomes, and the more I know I know I need to learn.

I wonder if the Bus Stop Bible Studies advertising blitz would have been more effective if they had left this particular issue out of it.   Now the one particular topic — there were 24 altogether — has become a flashpoint, though it certainly brought publicity and awareness to the larger series of advertisements.

Related comments at RH (Reproductive Health) Reality Check.

March 24, 2010

First Spring Wednesday Links

While New Mexico and Arizona had snow this winter, we here in Southern Ontario, Canada have hardly seen a flake of it.   But snow in May is not unheard of, especially out on the Canadian prairies.   Here’s the past seven days online as I saw it:

  • If you haven’t seen it already, Peter Hitchens, brother of noted atheist Christopher Hitchens details his conversion in this Daily Mail (UK) article
  • Kent Shaffer has once again dusted off his calculator and slide rule and using a mathematical formula known only to NASA, brings a list of the Top 100 Christian Blogs plus 30 bonus blogs.   (I’m pretty sure the one you’re reading now was # 131.)
  • Speaking of charts and lists, the blog Floating Sheep offers a map showing the dominance of different forms of Christianity around the world, although, maybe it’s just me, but the North American map and the world map seem somewhat conflicted.  See for yourself.
  • Because I don’t watch the animated TV show, King of the Hill, I had never seen this incredibly accurate, must-see bit from two years back where Hank Hill and family decide it’s time for choosing a new church.
  • On a more serious look at the same subject, J.D. Greear — whose goal is to plant 1,000 churches in 40 years (it’s true) — discusses the thorny topic, “On What Grounds Should You Move to Another Church?”  He sees this as finding a balance between two truths.
  • The graphic at the right is apparently page eight of a coloring book, Jesus and the Dinosaurs as posted online by David Kirk at the blog Frogtown.  Love the line, “He probably did.”
  • We talk a lot about the “un-churched,” but Skye Jethani asks the musical question, “Who are the de-churched?” in Part one of a two-part post at Out of Ur.
  • John Stackhouse discusses what happens when pastors — or any of us for that matter — get asked to offer a prayer at an academic, civic or sports gathering, and comes up with an answer you might not expect.
  • Jim Lehmer adds up all things he’s looking for in an ideal church, and finds them in a completely different kind of place.
  • Ever wonder what kind of books pastors are reading?  Greg Boyd — who may not be 100% representative! — shares his list and they’re not titles most of us are familiar with.
  • C.S. Lewis may no longer be with us, but he seems most contemporary when he discusses the where our focus should be in worship.
  • Internal links:  If you missed the two-part series on the weekend, my wife Ruth grieves the loss of our church (again) on Friday, while I look at the issues of who gets to serve — and who decides — on Saturday.
  • The website Fast Company summarizes the implications of Google’s pullout from China, including how it might affect a similar situation in Australia.
  • From The Online Discernmentalist Mafia site; first there was Build-a-Bear, and now…



And before I started this blog, I remember happening on the Prayer Pups. After a two year run, there haven’t been any new strips posted since August, but the archives are worth visiting.


January 31, 2010

The Christian Vs. The Athiest: A Debate

Last night our town’s largest Baptist church, in association with the local Humanist Association presented a debate in which Joe Boot, a pastor and Christian apologist and former staff member with Ravi Zacharias International Ministries debated Dr. Clare Rowson, a lecturer, psychiatrist and medical columnist.      The event was well attended, the moderator kept things orderly and the mixed crowd — I’d guess something like 65% Christian and 35% atheist — was polite toward both guests.

I’m not sure if an event like this can be discussed in terms of winners and losers.    People arrive with their feet firmly planted in one camp or the other, and while I’m not saying it’s impossible, I doubt there are many people converting to the opposite opinion before nights like this are over.    There are two remarkably different perspectives, and not a lot of common ground, although quotations from writers with the opposing view flew back and forth over the evening, just to make things more interesting.

I think the winners are the audience members who get some exposure to people and viewpoints they may be somewhat isolated from.    I know many Christians who simply don’t get into philosophical or religious discussions with anyone other than members of their own tribe.   I think it’s a good thing for them to hear from an intelligent, articulate and logical atheist, and then to see a representative of their own team respond appropriately.

I am also sure that some atheists might find themselves similarly isolated, although given the topic — Does God Exist? — they didn’t exactly hear what Christians would call “The Gospel,” but rather a sort of pre-evangelistic discussion that only a handful of times mentioned the name of Jesus.   (In a Church service the next day, Joe Boot addressed this as he lectured on the topic, “Is Jesus the Only Way?”)

Boot indicated at one point that he was using a “reverse apologetic,” in other words, trying to show the futility of atheism.    Rowson indicated early on that since you can’t prove a negative hypothesis — “God Does Not Exist” — this placed the burden of proof on the Christian side.   As stated,  Boot, for whatever tactical reason, was not setting out to do this, so I am sure there were people in both camps who walked away disappointed.

The event also suffered from the use of the standard debate format.   The initial presentation from each debater was 20 minutes, followed by a four minute rebuttal and two minute rebuttal response.   The rebuttals seemed very short by comparison.

The second half was two-minute responses to questions that had been preselected from e-mails received during the week.   That was also unfortunate, since there were things said in the first half that begged clarification, and also, it meant that the two hour evening had no interactive component.    It would have been ideal to find a somewhat neutral journalist who could engage audience questions in a less formal “talk show” kind of situation.   (Yes, I’m available in future, but I’m not exactly neutral.)

Should your town or city consider an event like this?   I’m not sure.  The church that helped promote this event is very “program and event driven,” so it fit their church culture well.    But there was also a lot of energy that went into this for very little initial evidence of what the Christian side would call fruit.

It did however bring the word “apologetics” into discussion.   As Boot said this morning,  “Some people think you need an IQ of 120 or more to do apologetics and everybody with an IQ under 120 should do evangelism.  That’s not true.  Everybody should be ready and able to give a defense of their faith.”

For more information about Joe Boot’s new Church plant in Toronto, Canada, Westminster Chapel, click here.   For information on another of his projects, the Ezra Institute for Contemporary Christianity, click here.    You can also check the sidebar of this blog periodically for links beginning with the keyword, Apologetics.

Today’s Quotation:  Does This Mean Spurgeon Wasn’t Arminian?
“It always seems inexplicable to me that those who claim free will so very boldly for man should not also allow some free will to God. Why should not Jesus Christ have the right to choose his own bride?”–Spurgeon

November 25, 2009

On the Links

Here’s some places a mouse click or two took me this week:

  • I really hesitate to post another link to Pete Wilson because every time I do, he writes a personal note of thanks, and he’s a busy guy.  But I couldn’t ignore this one.   Pete had the thrill of baptizing his son Jett last week, and wrote him a note on the blog.    Here’s the part I don’t want you to miss:  God has an amazing adventure planned for you and I want to encourage you to trust Him at every turn. Over and over again you’ll face situations where you’ll be tempted to give into fear but I pray you’ll choose faith. You’ll be temped to control but remember freedom comes in letting go. You’ll be drawn toward comfort but I pray you’ll choose sacrifice. You will feel all alone but remember God promises that He will never leave you nor forsake you. Read it all here.
  • This video has been up for a year now, but if you missed the Protestant Reformation and want to catch up, this rap video, 95 Theses, should fill you in.   (Click on more info below the advert to see the full lyrics.)  Also available at this homepage.
  • Sadly, Philip Yancey marks his final regular column with Christianity Today this week with a look at the Evangelical movement.   “Perhaps we should present an alternative to the prevailing culture rather than simply adopt it. What would a church look like that created space for quietness, that bucked the celebrity trend and unplugged from surrounding media, that actively resisted consumerist culture? What would worship look like if it were directed more toward God than toward our entertainment preferences?”
  • Jim Henderson, of Jim and Caspar Go To Church fame, has an excellent article on his site, “What The Black Church Has That The White Church Needs.”   He writes, They’ve never had power or influence over the majority culture; They’ve always had to do more with less;  They have experience with being ignored; They’ve developed practical gospel that brings heaven to humans (as well as humans to heaven); They produced the most significant Christian leader of the 20th Century Martin Luther King Jr… ” You might find it hard to see the first few of those as being things they have.   Read and comment at Off The Map.
  • A long time acquaintance of ours, Brian McAuley, has written a book on an encouragement celebration that parents can do with their children.   The Family Gold Plate meal is similar to other red plate rituals some families have, but adds a lot of extra details.   It’s sold as a book only, or with the gold plate itself.    I don’t endorse a lot of commercial ventures on this blog, but am making an exception for this one.   To learn more, click here.   (It’s also linked in this blog’s sidebar from now to year-end.)
  • USAToday’s religion page notes the proliferation of student atheist groups on college campuses in this article. “At Iowa State, most of the club’s roughly 30 members are “former” somethings, mostly Christians. Many stress that their lives are guided not by anti-religiousness, but belief in science, logic and reason.”
  • In a 7-minute video, author Stephen K. Scott, author of The Greatest Words Ever Spoken, discusses The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived.   Scott went from failing in nine jobs to starting over a dozen multi-million dollar companies.   Read the book promotional vid here.
  • Time Magazine discusses the “helicopter parent” syndrome in a 4-page online article titled “The Growing Backlash Against Over-parenting.”   Strongly recommended for parents, grandparents, daycare workers, educators, etc.   Click here to read.
  • This one’s a bit dangerous, since the website WTFDIB stands for ‘What the Flippity-Flop Do I Believe?’  I know that when most of you see WTF in an acronymn, that’s not the first thing that comes to mind.   That may explain the rather slow traffic on this doctrinal discussion site.  Maybe you can spark a few of the discussions.

HT re. Time Magazine article goes to Zach Neilsen at Take Your Vitamin Z

They’re golfing.  On the Links.   Get it?   Okay, I’ll just put the cat up again next week like we usually do.

May 17, 2009

Engaging Life’s Big Questions With Rainn Wilson

Filed under: Christian, Christianity, issues — Tags: , , , , , , , , , , , , — paulthinkingoutloud @ 6:50 pm

ctrl_zWhat if you had the chance to read a blog that had fresh, daily content, and dealt seriously with the big issues of life, but was written from a somewhat atheistic perspective?    Many Christians only read blogs written by other Christians, which is rather sad, because it is in coming in contact with the broader population that we are kept, for lack of a better phrase, on our toes spiritually.

And what if, as an added bonus, the blog in question was written by an actor currently appearing in America’s #1 comedy series, Rainn Wilson of The Office (NBC)?

Seriously, you should check this guy out!  The blog is called Soul Pancake.  He is asking all the right questions, confronting all the right issues, and is being brutally honest with believers, non-believers and himself.

And if you’re a pastor, and you like to be current, and you like to connect with the thoughts and ideas that are “out there,” then this is a blog you should keep in touch with on a regular basis.      Admittedly, sometimes Rainn simply kickstarts a topic and then lets readers take care of the rest, but oh, what great topics those are.   Sometimes an anecdotal incident or even one of the many great pictures and graphics — see image at right — is all it takes get the discussion going, with lots of great answers provided.

While the blog is packed with great material — like this blog, scrolling back ten pages may only take you back a single month — here’s some interesting elements from the current home page:
A list of five needs is interesting in light of # 2:

I “NEED”
1. Caffeine – Without my morning Americano, it’s hello Headache-ville.
2. Prayer – I may turn to prayer only as a last-ditch resort, but it never fails to bring me a sense of resolve.
3. Focus – One of the things I find difficult is giving people my undivided attention. I pride myself on multi-tasking, but every now and then I wish I found it easier to focus on one thing.
4. My iPhone – It is my connection to the world. I need my hourly dose of tweetfacespacemailing.
5. Adventure – I am constantly seeking new experiences and challenges. I am scared of being complacent and missing out on something.

A quote from Lewis Smedes:

“You will know that forgiveness has begun when you recall those who hurt you and feel the power to wish them well.”—Lewis B. Smedes

And this very telling moment of truth from May 11th:

God’s not showing up today. I’ve been artistically flat for a week, without idea or inspiration, unimpressed and unmotivated. And it doubly sucks because as an Atheist, I can’t count on a helping hand from heaven above.

So I hit the streets, damning the nonexistence of God and the consequent lack of divine intervention in my art (while simultaneously dodging all of the speeding buses). If only I could tap into God for a hot artistic second and then go back to being a nonbeliever. And then epiphany strikes: How many of us secret away our beliefs and reach for them only in our self-absorbed, egotistical moments of need—when it serves us best, it’s advantageous, or, frankly, it’s the last chance we’ve got?

That’s the big knock on Atheists, you know—that as soon as we step into the crosswalk and see that flame-engulfed motor coach careening right for us, we’re secretly praying, “Please, God. Not today, God! I believe, God… I BELIEVE!!!” As if some split-second sanctimonious tribute to a superior being that you’ve spent a lifetime denying is going to make that much of a difference now.

But that’s the rub: When their backs are to the wall, most Atheists will hedge their bets and start praying. If God’s a loving God, perhaps he’ll show forgiveness and spare an Atheist or two in that last second. Some believers say he will. Most, however, are busy saying, “Damn! Did you see that speeding bus totally crush that poor Atheist?”

But I’m open-minded. I’m sure that within the universe of Atheists, there are a few of us who secretly believe in God. When all the other Atheists aren’t looking, these interlopers cast faithful eyes toward the heavens and whisper a private penance. The law of averages says there must be at least a couple of Atheist posers out there who are just trying to look existentially cool. And since real Atheists love flaunting their certainty, I felt obliged to do a little investigating. It’s not as if I was making any headway on my artistic endeavors.

…to keep reading this one link here.

But probably the finest moment in the most recent fifteen or so pages of Soul Pancake is Rainn’s take on The Simpsons.

So, your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to follow this blog throughout the week.   Maybe become a commenter.   Then report back here in a rainn_wilsonweek.

In the meantime, if you’re one of my regular readers, what non-Christian bloggers do you read regularly that you would like to share with everyone else here?

Graphic:  From an April post at Soul Pancake

HT: Dave at Big Ear Creations blog.


Rainn’s blog is constantly being updated.   It had changed a few times since this was composed on Saturday.  Your impression may vary depending on what’s up at any given moment.   Take the time to scroll through several pages.

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