MacArthur: A Lesson for the Boys and Men

This is about the 8th or 9th time I’ve found a Twitter thread that I felt was worthy of a wider forum or a different media. This time around the author is Tish Warren Harrison, author of Liturgy of the Ordinary (InterVarsity). I know as I’m typing this that some of you are weary of this subject, but I believe she offers a fresh perspective.

When everyone was talking about John MacArthur and “Go home,” I was busy having a human being, so I haven’t been online. But do I care? Of course I care. I care because I’m a female priest and care about Beth Moore. And because I care about the church. And here’s what I thought:

I have often said that I keep having this conversation — not just about women’s ordination/roles but about women’s catechesis/discipleship, institutional empowerment and accountability, theological training, leadership, and depth — for my daughters, but this week, I had a son.

And I have realized that we need this conversation just as much for him and every boy of the next generation. Because it is hard to be a faithful, orthodox Christian in the world. I think it is getting harder.

If boys and men can’t learn from and value the gifts, insight, teaching, knowledge, writing, ministries, and works of God in 50%+ of the church, it will be all the harder for them to walk with Jesus.

Sexism is a sin. We don’t often speak of it in those terms, but it’s not just “problematic.” It’s a principality and power. It is idolatry. And like all sin, it diminishes us as a church, not just those sinned against, but those who are in sin.

(And note I’m not talking about complementarianism as a biblical conviction, which is not what any of this is about — Beth isn’t ordained even. This is about if women can speak about God.)

Eric Metaxas Gives the Women Equal Time

In a publishing environment where branding is prized, it was somewhat inevitable that at some point after the 2013 release of Seven Men and the Secret of their Greatness (which we reviewed here) there would be a sequel. The former book was diverse: A President, two politicians, two athletes, a Pope, and a scaled down version of the author’s epic-length biography of Bonhoeffer. With Seven Women… the geography is perhaps more diverse, but the women all are crusaders of one type or another.

A book like this allows you the opportunity to read the sections in any order, but in the end, I proceeded in the order the chapters occur; partly because the first four stores — Joan of Arc, Susanna Wesley, Hannah More, and Maria Skobtsova — were less familiar to me. That left Corrie ten Boom, Rosa Parks and Mother Teresa, stories with which perhaps you also are more acquainted with.

Biographies by necessity entail a certain amount of biographical data. In this case, one encounters some of the dry stuff that Wikipedia pages are famous for, only to turn the page and discover Metaxas has linked some aspect of the woman’s life to things we experience in the 21st Century. So with Wesley,

Much of what she taught them [her children] was for the purpose of helping them see through — and therefore be able to resist — the secular doctrines of that time. So she may be regarded not only as the inventor of homeschooling, but also of what today is sometimes called “worldview teaching,” something modern Christian parents in the West have begun embracing as they raise their children in an increasingly post-Christian culture.

And if you’ve ever attended a church where the attendance dips noticeably on the Sundays the Associate Pastor (or Youth Pastor) is preaching, the paragraphs concerning her husband’s curate will certainly resonate. You might add to the above-mentioned accomplishments that she foreshadowed a time when those skipping church would stay home and listen to a podcast.

The story of Maria aka Saint Maria of Paris carries with it both Orthodox and Catholic history. (If you don’t know her, see the quotation we ran yesterday.) Of course, Mother Teresa’s story is overtly Roman Catholic, while Joan of Arc includes elements of Christian Mysticism. Her faith and prophetic gifts are rather amazing.

Hannah More is an inspiration to all the poets, playwrights, novelists and songwriters who wonder if they can make a difference through their art, but again, the story contains references to More’s ability to work the political system of the day.

Corrie ten Boom’s story is better known to Evangelicals, as Rosa Parks’ name is known to anyone remotely aware of U.S. history. You could make these into a movie. Oh, wait… And Mother Teresa’s life example never gets old.  Again, I found the people whose stories were new to me most beneficial, and plan to return to those first four chapters for a second round. 

Some have criticized Mother Teresa for being all about social justice with little attention to proclamation, even to the point of doubting her salvation. Metaxas gives us two insights on this however, one being “the fine line Mother Teresa had to walk as a Christian missionary in a Hindu country;” the other being quotations from a clear statement of the gospel given in her 1979 acceptance of the Nobel Peace Prize in Oslo, Norway.

What is the secret of the greatness of all these women? Often, Metaxas leaves it to the reader to infer or extrapolate such principles, though in the book’s context, their Christian faith is an obvious factor that goes without saying. He is content to wear a historian’s hat for this project, and to vary from that would probably result in a book double the size. As it is, the book gives each figure about 30 pages making this a practical resource for both adults and students.

Frankly, I hope the ‘brand’ continues. Seven More Women… or Seven More Men…? Based on the first two books, I’d place my pre-order today.

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A copy of Seven Women was provided by Laura at HarperCollins Christian Publications in Canada. The Eric Metaxas Show airs Monday to Friday on the Salem Radio Network, or you can listen to past episodes at this link. Joan of Arc was, as it turned out, not Noah’s wife.

A Jesus Feminist, A Sarcastic Lutheran, and a Very Worst Missionary Walk Into Bar

Well there’s a meeting that some of my readers, especially those of the female persuasion, would have loved to have been a fly on the wall for.

Left to Wright:

Nadia Bolz-Weber:  Blog, Twitter
Sarah Bessey: Blog, Twitter
Jamie Wright: Blog, Twitter

Noticeably absent: Rachel Held-Evans: Blog, Twitter

What’s in the dishes: Location, somewhere in Denver, described as a “meatball bar” by Jamie the VWM

Who asked for the hot sauce: Unknown at this time, we’re investigating.

Social Media: Putting Your Best Keystroke Forward

In the forthcoming book Clout: Discover and Release Your God-Given Influence, Jennie Catron writes:

I’m generally a fan of social media. I actively use Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and Pinterest. I enjoy meeting new people, sharing thoughts and ideas, and having a forum to chatter about the simple things. However, the dark side of social media may be the format to perpetuate the sins of envy and comparison. Social media by nature only give space for us to put our best foot forward. Our most aspirational self is portrayed while our fears, challenges, and unmet desires remain hidden. After all, who wants to follow a constant critic or an endless stream of depressing thoughts?

I think that partly explains the appeal of blogger Jamie Wright. Calling herself “The Very Worst Missionary,” she isn’t afraid to present herself as the anti-role model; the blog almost revels in her failures, until she writes a post like she did recently about her Christmas tree falling over, and it’s just broad enough to include all of us, to bear the weight of all our brokenness.

…I was fighting to find joy this year. I was struggling to make a place for the delight of Christmas because I was wrapped up tight in the pain of loss. When it fell, I was like, “Perfect. That is just effing perfect.” Because this Christmas was already well on its way to Sucksville and an unwilling Christmas tree was just the icing on the Birthday Cake For Baby Jesus. *rolling my eyes*

It’s been a rough one for me and for some of the people I love. Frankly, this is not the most wonderful time of the year for us, at least not this time around.

I’ve noticed this year (probably because I’m having a super lame horrible dumb stupid stupid stupid Christmas) that there doesn’t seem to be a lot of space in our lives for hurting people during the Holidays. But, man, there are a lot of hurting people. There are a lot of people for whom this time of year is sad or bitter, hollow or lonely, or just plain painful.

While some of us are celebrating, others are aching.

While some of us are toasting to long life, others are mourning life lost.

While some of us feast on family time, others are starving to be loved.

The bustle of activity and togetherness in December only serves to make some houses feel all the more empty.

Canadian author Sarah Tun recently posted:

I seem to be in mid-life crisis. At 54 I guess that means I’m running a little behind. I just recently woke up to the fact that I’m over 50, aging and I’ve not accomplished what I hoped to do and time is running out!

The clock seems to be running and I’m slowing down.

My joy is only in the LORD and it is complete in Him. I haven’t slipped from obedience, faith or love for Him. But reason is telling me I need to make a shift in my strategy for living. Not because I’m tired, because I’m not. But because I doubt my ability to achieve what’s in my heart to achieve and I’m not sure how to move forward.

Click the graphic at the top for more (in  different article) from Sarah.

Perhaps that was the appeal of the article I linked to earlier in the week; where an author shares a story she originally planned to keep hidden; one of checking herself into a hospital psych ward, a story which also reminded of a similar brokenness in Shelia Walsh‘s story.

I hadn’t planned on only quoting or mentioning women today, but if this is helpful to someone today; I guess that was God’s plan. However, know that because there are more of them online, men who blog are equally guilty of a lack of transparency, and equally broken, but probably a lot less likely to express it.

Granddaughter of Robert Schuller Pens Controversial Book

After Rachel Held Evans’ A Year of Biblical Womanhood, could the faith-related book market possibly push the envelope any further?

The answer is a resounding yes with the release of God and Boobs: Balance Faith and Sexuality by Angie Schuller Wyatt, first granddaughter of Cyrstal Cathedral/Hour of Power founder Robert H. Schuller and wife of Christopher Wyatt, founder of GodTube.

But the cover of the new book — even a static image of it — would probably not meet the standards of the video sharing network.

I’ve opted not to reproduce it here.

PRNewswire reports:

[The book is] a surprising twist to take on religion, a male dominated vocation, especially from a famous family with four generations of men with the same name, Robert Schuller. Her bold move has everyone asking, “Is Schuller Wyatt committing spiritual suicide?”  Schuller Wyatt is already paying the price. 

A third-generation pastor, Schuller Wyatt was scheduled to appear on the Hour of Power broadcast where her brother Robert “Bobby” Schuller III preaches.  But when word got out that Schuller Wyatt had written God and Boobs, she was unceremoniously dumped via email from a church executive who gave no explanation.

…continue reading here…

But don’t expect to browse a copy of the self-published title at your local bookstore anytime soon. The book is available on various e-book platforms but the print edition is presently the exclusive property of Amazon. The back cover blurb states:

The idea that women can live sexy and strong is counter to church culture. But Angie Schuller Wyatt, granddaughter of celebrated televangelist Dr. Robert H Schuller, exposes the reasons women are repressed and offers her secrets to living sexy and strong.

Growing up in the world’s most famous church, Angie Schuller Wyatt spent her years at the Crystal Cathedral in the shadows of a male dominated society. It was a painful time, but years of study and hard work provided her the tools she needed to break free.

Through a beautifully woven tapestry of real-life stories, Angie and other women share their powerful and personal experiences and provide practical suggestions for how to live the life God intended. Through these life-changing stories, you’ll discover how to have faith AND femininity; live sexy, strong and self-aware; feel sensual without shame; break free from religious constrains; enjoy the faith your mom never told you about; find true love in today’s “sex sells” world. 

So to all my women readers, my wish for you today is that you can “enjoy the faith your mom never told you about.” Live sexy. Live strong.

No Women Bishops in the C. of E., For Now

There are probably more female clergy in the Church of England and its north American counterparts — The Anglican Church of Canada and The Episcopal Church in the U.S. — than in many other Protestant denominations. But a glass ceiling formally exists preventing women from rising to the rank of bishop (literally ‘overseer’ in scripture).

Superficial media reports suggested that the recent attempt to change the rules failed because the two-thirds majority required for change wasn’t attained, but that’s an oversimplification of how the vote took place.

In fact, what was required was a two-thirds majority in each of the three “houses” that are represented at the annual conference: Bishops, clergy and laity.

The bishops themselves — by definition all male — were actually the least opposed to the idea. If it were just an overall popular vote needed to carry the resolution for change, their overwhelming majority support would have been enough to reach the two-thirds needed.

The clergy weren’t so overwhelming but also supported the need for change.

It was — and this is the under reported part of the story — in the “house” consisting of lay people appointed to the General Synod where the two-thirds majority failed.

The House of Bishops voted 44 in favour, with three against and two recorded abstentions. In the House of Clergy, 148 voted in favour, 45 against and there were no abstentions.

But in the House of Laity, 74 voted against, compared to 132 in favour with no abstentions.      ~ BreakingNews.ie

Honestly, I would have expected the three votes to be the other way around; the rank and file pushing for a more progressive situation, and the powers that be wanting to maintain the status quo. But what do I know about Anglicans?

At least one traditionalist, who ought to be happy with the outcome, is still upset that the vote happened.

And the Huffington Post, never wanting to miss out on sensationalism said the church “faces growing pressure to rip up its rulebook to allow the ordination of women bishops.”

The newly appointed archbishop feels it’s just a matter of time, and expects to consecrate a female bishop during his term of office.

Blogging: Where are the Women?

Fred Clark produced this labor of love at Slacktivist on the weekend under the title “Men on Top: Where are all the Christian Women Bloggers?”  The first part of the title is in reference to the Top 200 chart which comes out every year. Perhaps he should have explained that more clearly. One thing he didn’t explain is that embedded in this post is a link or two (or closer to 150) to some of the women that are out there. (Apologies to those of you on dial-up internet for whom this post might pose a challenge.) Since this blog wins the Sausage Award for the number of links it already contains, it seemed a shame to let all Fred’s work not get seen by the widest possible audience…

As Church Relevance faces another round of criticism for it’s latest male-dominated list of the “Top 200 Church Blogs,” Kent Shaffer looks to dig his way out of the hole with a post titled “An Open Letter to Christian Women Blogs.”

It’s not a terribly constructive response, although it does helpfully provide a neat illustration of why the critics are right.

This “Open Letter” praises “how far women’s rights have come,” and laments that “the inequality gap is still and may always be a great chasm.” And if Church Relevance’s list reflects that great chasm, that’s hardly their fault, right?

I mean, look, Church Relevance is focused on leaders — top-level, influential, transformational, inspirational, highly effective leaders. What could people like that possibly do to change the status quo?

Here’s a bit more from Shaffer’s “Open Letter” and from his earlier response to the same criticism: “Where Are the Top Christian Women Bloggers?”

Almost  every  time  I  update  the  Top  Church  Blogs  list,  one  question  arises:  Where  are  all  the  Christian  women  bloggers?

… We  are  not  trying  to  exclude  women,  and  since  starting  the  list,  have  spent  over  100  hours  trying  to  find  blogs  written  by  women,  non-whites,  and  non-Americans  that  fit  the  topical  scope  and  have  high  enough  traffic  to  make  the  rankings.

… Historically,  men  have  occupied  the  overwhelming  majority  of  church  leadership  positions.  As  most  of  you  know,  this  disparity  is  deeply  rooted  in  denominational  and  theological  beliefs.  At  the  same  time,  there  have  always  been  more  male  bloggers  than  female  bloggers.

…  Within  the  church  blogosphere,  I  expect  that  for  every  female  blogger  excluded  from  the  Top  Church  Blogs  list,  there  could  very  likely  be  3+  male  bloggers  excluded.

There  have  always  been  more  male  bloggers  than  female  bloggers.  And  there  have  always  been  more  male  church  leaders  than  female  church  leaders.

It’s a great chasm and there’s nothing to be done about it — at least nothing that influential, highly effective, Top Ministry Leaders can do.

(OK, too much cutting-and-pasting of links. Hands … cramping ….)

You should see the HTML for this post! To read at source, click here.

For All The Saints

So it’s Saturday and you’re a worship leader surfing the net for some good worship songs for Sunday — nothing like the last minute  — and then you discover tomorrow is All Saints Day.   No, not All Saints Sunday, it’s actually the day!

You see if you’re in a denomination that does the liturgical calendar at all — and in many churches it will just be another worship set of Hillsong and Chris Tomlin songs — you should know that when All Saints Day (November 1st) falls on a Saturday or a Monday, the day itself moves to the Sunday in all its solemnity. Holy days of obligation, Batman!

Just don’t tell me later that your church based its worship song selection on Halloween.  American megachurches: this means you.

So for all the worship leaders, here’s all the verses to All Saints Day’s one and only standard hymn.   And I am counting on you to sing all eleven verses.   Standing.

For All The Saints Hymn

For all the saints, who from their labors rest,
Who Thee by faith before the world confessed,
Thy Name, O Jesus, be forever blessed.
Alleluia, Alleluia!

Thou wast their Rock, their Fortress and their Might;
Thou, Lord, their Captain in the well fought fight;
Thou, in the darkness drear, their one true Light.
Alleluia, Alleluia!

For the Apostles’ glorious company,
Who bearing forth the Cross o’er land and sea,
Shook all the mighty world, we sing to Thee:
Alleluia, Alleluia!

For the Evangelists, by whose blest word,
Like fourfold streams, the garden of the Lord,
Is fair and fruitful, be Thy Name adored.
Alleluia, Alleluia!

For Martyrs, who with rapture kindled eye,
Saw the bright crown descending from the sky,
And seeing, grasped it, Thee we glorify.
Alleluia, Alleluia!

O blest communion, fellowship divine!
We feebly struggle, they in glory shine;
All are one in Thee, for all are Thine.
Alleluia, Alleluia!

O may Thy soldiers, faithful, true and bold,
Fight as the saints who nobly fought of old,
And win with them the victor’s crown of gold.
Alleluia, Alleluia!

And when the strife is fierce, the warfare long,
Steals on the ear the distant triumph song,
And hearts are brave, again, and arms are strong.
Alleluia, Alleluia!

The golden evening brightens in the west;
Soon, soon to faithful warriors comes their rest;
Sweet is the calm of paradise the blessed.
Alleluia, Alleluia!

But lo! there breaks a yet more glorious day;
The saints triumphant rise in bright array;
The King of glory passes on His way.
Alleluia, Alleluia!

From earth’s wide bounds, from ocean’s farthest coast,
Through gates of pearl streams in the countless host,
And singing to Father, Son and Holy Ghost:
Alleluia, Alleluia!

 

Text: William W. How, 1823-1897
Music: Ralph Vaughan Williams, 1872-1958

Read more about All Saints Day here

Seeking the Symbolism: Our Visit to a Catholic Church

On Sunday, for the fourth or fifth time, we visited a small church which is a breakaway group from the local Roman Catholic church.    The split from Rome was, I believe, over the issue of the ordination of women priests, but I believe there were some other issues; many of which the congregants of this church have perhaps forgotten.   The service uses the same lectionary readings as other Catholic churches in Canada follow, but there are also some variations in other places.

The group averages between thirty and fifty people, and we return occasionally to offer encouragement; but also because, of the 37 churches and home churches I’ve visited in our area, they are the most friendly and the most welcoming.    (And their worship band is probably one of the best, also; especially considering their involvement in the liturgy.)

This time around we arrived late and were seated closer to the front and I found myself noticing things I would have missed before.   The symbols on the stole the pastor was wearing.    His kissing of the altar table at the beginning and end of the service.   A reference to the table containing water and wine, representing the humanity and divinity of Christ.

On a Sunday that many Christians worshiped in ‘neutral’ auditoriums devoid of icons and physical actions of worship (and in a few cases, equally devoid of depth or mystery) I couldn’t help but think that this is the extra dimension of worship some say they miss, and others say is going to make a comeback.  (Though possibly minus the kissing of objects, unless their origins are Greek Orthodox.)

Also, this is worship style where the emphasis is not on the sermon.  Although I’ve heard a couple of great messages in this church, my Evangelical friends would consider the one on Sunday to be sermon-lite.   So the other forms of the service matter more in this context.

After the service I grabbed a notebook and made four quick observations, written in the form of questions:

1. What is taking place? In today’s mega-churches you wouldn’t necessarily catch all the things I caught sitting just a few feet away.   And there were others I missed, forgot, or haven’t listed here.  Are people as trained today to have the same attention to detail as when some of these forms were instituted?
   
2. What is the significance of what is taking place? The wine and water on the table were explained.   Other things are perhaps already known to this congregation.   But what of the people who miss the memo?  Or visitors like us?   Perhaps the reason some people don’t connect with the more liturgical churches is that nobody has explained the backstory behind the ‘sacred actions’ of worship.
   
3. How much of this registers with people? To what extent do people connect the dots between the physical actions of the priest or pastor and their person worship taking place among those gathered?   I suppose much of this hinges on whether or not the leader is there on behalf of the people or if he is modeling a pattern of worship for them to follow in the hearts.  How do their acts of worship on the platform, stage or chancel become my acts of worship?
4. What difference does that make? How does this permeate the next 167 hours of my week until we meet again next Sunday?   For example, how does a consideration of Christ’s combined humanity and divinity infuse my thoughts of what it means to be a Christ-follower throughout the week?  Is there a practical application?  This is where the discussion of ‘relevance’ meets formal liturgy.

But I think you could apply all of this to Evangelical and Charismatic churches as well:

1. What’s taking place?
2. Why?  Why do this?  Why those particular songs or prayers?
   
3. Is the answer to #2 obvious to the congregation?
4. How does this service make a difference in peoples’ lives?

Who Exactly Is Teaching The Women in Your Church?

Other bloggers can talk all they want about John Piper, Scot McKnight, Tim Keller, Francis Chan,  etc., but I work in a Christian bookstore and in that environment, only one name mattered this week: Beth Moore.    Her So Long Insecurity: You’ve Been a Bad Friend To Us (Tyndale, 2010) is out in hardcover at $24.99 US this month and has captured the top spot on a couple of the Spring Arbor overnight Top 100 charts this week.

Before going further, I have to ask:  What’s with the United States and all their hardcover releases?   I thought y’all were in the middle of an economic downturn?

Okay, the question is rhetorical.   When it comes to Beth Moore, money is no object.   Almost all her book titles have released in hardcover, a situation she shares with her slightly more charismatic friend, Joyce Meyer.   Neither one of these women have any problem sucking money out of the pockets of their fans.

In fairness though, while Meyer may not be able to control everything her publisher does with her hardcovers, she apparently does give away many of her teaching DVDs and CDs to ministry organization.

With Moore, the commercialism is more overt.   When Moore isn’t writing general book titles for publishers such as Tyndale, she’s producing another small group Bible study for Lifeway.    I gotta be honest here, I have a hard time even typing Lifeway into a sentence, and I just about retch saying it out loud.

Lifeway is the most ingenious money sucking device ever invented by Baptists, and trust me, they’ve invented several.    My anger knows no bounds in this, but fortunately it’s righteous anger, so I can rationalize it in large amounts.

Here’s how the scam works:   Lifeway, a producer of dated Sunday School curriculum decided long ago that there was far more money in delineating its non-dated adult small group material as curriculum also, and sells it to distributors at what is called a short-discount.    Your favorite Christian bookstore or online vendor is simply not making a lot of money on it.   So who is?

Often, such as in the case of church choral and orchestral product, or certain esoteric Bible translation materials, the discount is shortened to keep the price affordable.    But with many of Moore’s DVD teaching sets retailing at $250 US, that simply isn’t the case here.

Years ago, Serendipity House held back products from distribution — selling them only through their own system — to cover development costs.   That’s not the case here, either.   The retail prices of the study guides — almost always $19 US and coyly termed “member books” — usually cost participants twice the price of any other DVD-related participant guides and more than cover any possible development costs.

But the price is minor when you factor in the volume.   Moore and Lifeway together are selling thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of these things.   The Lifeway anchor store we visited in Nashville had a staff member assigned solely to this one aisle of product, and when he went to lunch someone else covered for him.   The appetite of Christian women’s groups for Beth Moore knows no bounds;  not denominationally and not geographically.    James MacDonald, who won’t let the wives of any of his staff members do anything other than be stay at home housewives, included her on his Downpour tour.    She’s ubiquitous; able to boldly go where no woman has gone before and command fees that no one has ever charged before.

And what qualifies this person who is teaching our mothers, daughters, wives, sisters and girlfriends?

She has a degree in political science.

Okay, let’s be fair,  she also has an honorary doctorate in humanities from Howard Payne University (no I haven’t heard of it, either) a Baptist (surprise) university located in Brownwood, Texas (surprise) whose basketball team won a national championship in 1957.   According to Wikipedia she went to a Biblical doctrine class (whoo hoo) and then started a women’s Bible study that grew to over 2,000.    But when it comes to earned education, their report stops with this:

She has a degree in political science.

Joyce Meyer?   She claims an earned degree from the non-accredited Life Christian University, and also has an honorary degree from ORU.   She doesn’t have $250 DVD teaching series, nor do her various publishers and DVD creators stiff Christian bookstores with a short discount.   And I’m willing to give her points for growing up in adversity and having attended the school of hard knocks.

But the private jet always comes up in conversation.   You gotta be careful here, however, since the counter argument is always to look at the places she travels in a year and then compare the cost (and time) involved in commercial flights.     I’m willing to let her have the thing.

I’m not so willing to concede on the luxury homes or the lifestyle that goes with them, regardless of how much money she gives away.   There are casinos which payout 94% of all they take in.   That’s nice.   It’s the 6% that bothers me.  Check out this estate plan:

Here’s the extended photo caption for this picture by Robert Cohen of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch: “Joyce Meyer Ministries bought these 5 homes for Meyer and her family. The Ministry pays all expenses, including landscaping and lawn care, property taxes and rehab work. Meyer, her husband and each of their four married children live in the homes, free of charge.”

(1) Principal Residence of David and Joyce Meyer
Bought: April 27th, 1999
Purchase Price: About $795,000
Square Footage: 10,000
Cost of Improvements: $1.1 Million
Features: 6 Bedrooms, 5 Bathrooms, Gold Putting Green, Swimming pool, 8 Car Heated and Cooled Garage, Guest House with 2 more bedrooms, Gazebo.

(2) Residence of: Daughter, Sandra McCollom and her husband Steve
Bought: February 12, 2002
Purchase Price: $400,000
Square Footage: About 5,000
Cost of Improvements: About $250,000
Features: 4 Bedrooms, 3 full and 2 half Bathrooms, All-Seasons room, Prayer Room, Media Center and a Home Office.

(3)Residence of: Son, David Meyer and his wife Joy Meyer.
Bought: June 18, 2001Purchase Price: $725,000
Square Footage: 4,000
Cost of Improvements: Unknown
Features: 2 Story Colonial, 4 Bedrooms, 2 1/2 Bathrooms, 2 Garages and a Utility Shed

(4) Residence of: Daughter, Laura Holtzmann and her husband Doug
Bought: March 7, 2001
Purchase Price: $350,000
Square Footage: 2,358
Cost of Improvements: $3,000
Features: 3 Bedrooms, 2 Bathrooms with a Fireplace.

(5) Residence of: Son, Dan Meyer and his wife Charity
Bought: Mar 13, 2000
Purchase Price: About 200,000
Square Footage: About 2,000
Cost of Improvements: $33,000
Features: Brick Ranch With Full Finished Basement

[Read more here] (Last updated 1.11.09)

Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness.   Here’s some alternatives for you to consider:  Donna Partow, Luci Swindoll, Elizabeth George, Thelma Wells, Lysa TerKeurst, Liz Curtis Higgs, Shaunti Feldhahn, Nancy Leigh DeMoss, Stasi Eldredge, Lisa Bevere, Stormie Omartian, Jill Briscoe, and the list goes on and on.  (DVD and/or workbooks are available for study material for the majority of these authors; all at lower cost than the aforementioned Ms. Moore.)

In conclusion, Moore and Meyer are teachers that lead and inspire the women in many, many churches; and many women either dream or consciously want to emulate Meyer or Moore.   In Moore’s case, a denomination holding solidly to the premise that women should not pastor (see link below) has no problem ceding the responsibility for much teaching to a woman whose only earned degree is in political science.   In Meyer’s case, it’s often both men and women who enjoy her teaching, while she herself enjoys a personal life of excess.

Related article in this blog:  Lifeway Reveals Its Total Hypocrisy – 09/28/08

UPDATE: April 4, 2011 — After more than a year of taking a lot of heat for this particular blog post, I’ve decided to close comments.  I appreciate the replies to this article, which is the closest thing I’ve ever done to anything investigative, but I really don’t have a vendetta here, and I carry both Joyce’s and Beth’s products in the two bookstores I do buying for.

I’ve defended my reasons for running this and leaving it up in various responses to the comments. Please read them. I’ve tried to make it clear my goal was not to wound or hurt anyone.  Still, some writers have made it their goal to judge me for posting this. I’m sorry we don’t know each other better.

I think the replies, 37 as of now, show the variety of opinions people have on this issue. Also, I need to suggest that for some, the “wrongness” or “excess” of any preacher’s housing, if any, will diminish as the U.S. climbs out of recession.

I’d also invite you to read a follow up piece that appeared here several months later.

Finally, I would want to remind you that a great many people found this because they were indeed searching for pictures of Joyce’s house.  I really don’t know why. And I also want to reiterate that the main issue concerning Beth had to do with the politics by which her products are sold.

For the record, I am in favor of women as elders, women in ministry and women as pastors. But I would like to think there was a solid theological education underpinning that role. However again, I would also like to say that education isn’t everything, and that the main criteria noted with the disciples in Acts was that they were seen to have “spent time with Jesus.”