Thinking Out Loud

April 30, 2009

Mark Driscoll to Preach at Crystal Cathedral

Filed under: Christianity, Church — Tags: , , , , , , , — paulthinkingoutloud @ 7:08 pm

mark_driscoll9I’ll be the first to admit that I didn’t see this one coming, though doctrinally their reformed roots are similar.   Culturally?   That’s a different story.   Will Dr. Schuller offer Mark one of his robes to preach in?   Will Mark’s language be too edgy for television broadcast standards?  Stay tuned.

In the meantime, here’s the story; and you don’t even have to click on anything.



This story is from Church Solutions, an online magazine that I will definitely be bookmarking.   Current stories on the home page include a look at mission trip cancellations in the wake of the Swine Flu outbreak; and news that Pat Robertson intends to step down next year from Regent University, which he founded.    And no, it’s not a spoof news site.   I confirmed this one.

(Click on the story image to post a comment directly to their site.)


  1. I feel like I’ve entered the Twilight Zone…

    This just seems too bizarre to be true, and yet it is.

    Comment by Aaron — April 30, 2009 @ 10:01 pm

  2. […] Related post in this blog – Mark Driscoll at Crystal Cathedral (April 30/09) […]

    Pingback by Robert A. Schuller to start Web and TV Ministry « Thinking Out Loud — May 1, 2009 @ 4:26 pm

  3. This website is for people who have suffered abuse at Mark Driscoll’s church – I’ve known many of them. It may be worth taking a look at.

    Comment by stephy — May 5, 2009 @ 12:15 pm

  4. Sorry, here is the correct link.

    Comment by stephy — May 5, 2009 @ 12:23 pm

  5. Hey Stephy,

    First off, let me say I’m a big fan of your blog. (For the rest, just click on her name after comments 3 and 4.)

    Next, let me say that I’m a big fan of the other Mars Hill in Grand Rapids, MI where Rob Bell pastors, and no, they’re not related.

    I don’t really know all the issues concerning Mark D. and Mars Hill Seattle (WA). My only real contact is the New York Times article I linked in the first paragraph, and a sad story I read online about a woman who had a very successful career but had to give it up when her husband took a job at Mars Hill (WA) and the rules state that staff spouses are supposed to stay at home and be mothers and homemakers.

    This woman had a rather cool career; taking clients out to lunch most days, etc; and suddenly found herself stuck in the house doing absolutely nothing. She was willing to do the “mom” role, but they weren’t getting pregnant anytime soon.

    For what it’s worth, this policy applies elsewhere, too. I’m told that radio pastor James MacDonald has a similar deal with his staff.

    So…all that being the case, I checked out a bit of the blog you referenced in comment #4, and also the one it recently links to at and all I can say is that people should check all this out for themselves.

    I’ve covered a lot of topics here, but “spiritual abuse” hasn’t been one of them because, although I have been familiar with it for some time, I’m not conversant enough to write about it.

    However, guest bloggers are invited to submit proposals, because I’d love to shine the spotlight on this topic.

    Comment by paulthinkingoutloud — May 5, 2009 @ 8:06 pm

    • Paul,
      thanks for inviting people to look at that. I have been in counseling groups with people who have suffered marked abused at Mark Driscoll’s church (Mars Hill in Seattle) and I’m glad the website is out there. The story you heard about the woman who was told to quit her job is classic among the Mars Hill people here (I’m in Seattle so I know a few of them and have visited the church myself). It’s also sort of the tamer of many stories. So anyway, for those people who are intrigued by Driscoll’s resurgent/emergent church model, I think looking at the Mars Hill church abuse site is worth looking into, to be informed.
      (There was a large protest planned against Mark Driscoll here in Seattle in December 2006 I believe, due to his actions and statements. I had planned on attending the protest but it was called off at the last minute after Driscoll issued a retraction. I blogged about it at the time and posted about it recently here – Spiritual abuse really needs to be talked about and it doesn’t get a lot of attention, I don’t think, so thanks for wanting to call some attention to it!)

      Comment by stephanie — May 5, 2009 @ 10:33 pm

  6. PS – sorry for my poor grammar and spelling up there. Argh. Typing too fast. :)

    Comment by stephanie — May 5, 2009 @ 10:34 pm

  7. Trust me, the real spiritual abuse is happening at Rob’s Mars Hill… it’s just a lot more culturally acceptable.

    Comment by josh — May 7, 2009 @ 4:17 pm

    • Josh,

      I was out of town all day and hit the “approve comment” without thinking this through. So the comment is up somewhat conditionally on you doing what the others did, and sending me links to sites where people have voiced specific charges. Or at the very least, elaborating more on the type of thing you think is present there. Right now, you’re just voicing innuendo.

      Everybody else,

      What about this? How do we define spiritual abuse? Is it misuse of authority? Is it mis-application of scripture? I think we need to begin with a clear definition.

      Paul Wilkinson aka paulthinkingoutloud

      Comment by paulthinkingoutloud — May 7, 2009 @ 5:10 pm

  8. Hey Steph and Paulthinkingoutloud,

    Thanks for telling people about my site. Every time I get hit with something like, “Why are you doing this? You’re getting Driscoll and MH all wrong… I’m appalled you would write this…” I have to really question “WHY am I doing this?? Am I off?” You know, that ol’ self-doubt thing that most of us struggle with…

    but then I come to places like this or equality central at where– there it is again, another tragic story of abuse from Driscoll & MH or several stories of abuse and similarities w/ Driscoll and MH!

    I do want to speak the truth in love and I don’t always succeed… but damn it, I AM going to speak the truth! I just wish someone in a high enough place of leadership to reach Mark and his 8,000 (as in members) would confront him and speak out against him, and for goodness sakes, not about the stupid T-shirts or occassional cussing or the grunge! (PLLEEAASE! Get a life! They are missing the most salient points!).

    Anyway, I find it rather bizarre that Driscoll would even step foot in the Crystal Cathedral… the only tie I can see is that Rick Warren (of all the “purpose driven” mania) has roots back w/ Schuller (weird!) and since Mark name drops “Warren” a lot from the pulpit and tells how Warren will call him about this or that… those two have a connection, so maybe they put their heads together and thought this might be a good PR move, you know, “go to the dark side… they have cookies…” hahaha.

    Comment by freedom4captives — May 7, 2009 @ 4:35 pm

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