Thinking Out Loud

March 26, 2014

Wednesday Link List

Football Cross at MontanaWestUSA(dot)com

We’re back with another mid-week link meeting! Here’s what your brothers and sisters from random parts of the big ‘C’ church were up to this week. Clicking any of the links below will take you to PARSE, the list’s benevolent patron.

Stay in touch with Paul Wilkinson during the week on Twitter.

Our closing cartoon is rather interesting, don’t you think? The artist is Jess MacCallum and you can click the image to see more.

Evolution Cartoon at JessMacCallum(dot)com

January 29, 2014

Wednesday Link List

Bible is like a software license
A lot of people are critical of short-term missions, but right now, a plane ticket to somewhere warm would look really appealing. In the meantime, here are some links to keep you warm, clicking anything that follows will take you to PARSE at Christianity Today and then you can click through from there.

We leave you today with “the thrill that’ll gitcha when ya get your picture on the cover of the Rolling Stone.”  In this case, Pope Francis in the current issue; click the image to read the story.

Pope Francis Rolling Stone Cover

Paul Wilkinson is based in Canada — “You liked the first Polar Vortex so much we’re sending you another one” — and blogs at Thinking Out Loud and Christian Book Shop Talk

June 26, 2013

Wednesday Link List

So, is Pope Francis a revivalist?

Saved - Pope Francis

Now, on to the links…

Some very, very high profile Christian sites and at least one radio show get their news stories here. We know who you are…

The Wednesday List Lynx might be getting a new home as early as next week.

The Wednesday List Lynx might be getting a new home as early as next week.

Stop the presses! Is this the last link list?

We’re cooking up a partnership that could mean more people than ever would get to share in what we’ve been doing here for five years. Just think of the larger number of people who would get saved just clicking on these same stories. They might not even have to click; conviction might come just by reading the teasers. 

Really, why are we considering this? It’s about power and the ability to take bribes to promote various blogs and websites.

So stay tuned. Same bat time. Same bat channel. But maybe not actually same bat channel.

March 2, 2012

Seattle Local News Covers Mars Hill Church Discipline

At a book industry blog I write, I always tell retailers and publishers if you really want to get to know an author, find out what their hometown newspaper is saying about their book.

Well, if you really want a further look inside what’s going on with Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church in Seattle, you can’t do better than the city’s top station for local news. That station is KOMO, but the story has elements of KULT.

Tony Jones has the news clip.

Story transcript.

Want to delve deeper into the issue of church discipline and spiritual accountability of members?  This article at The Wartburg Watch goes into greater detail and also links you to a series of CT articles on the subject. 


  • Suffering from Link List withdrawal? Does the mere site of a bullet-point bullet here make you wish it was Wednesday again? Rachel Held Heavens will keep you going with her Sunday Superlatives. Here’s last week’s.

February 2, 2012

My Letter to Andrew

Andrew is the central character in a story about church discipline at Mars Hill Seattle which has blown up in the Christian blogosphere since Matthew Paul Turner posted part one on January 23rd.  (Covered on this blog, here.)

Or at least he was the central character. More of the recent conversation concerns ecclesiology, and church discipline in general and opportunity for ad hominum remarks concerning Mark Driscoll.

So I’m wondering if anyone is really reaching out to Andrew in all this…

Dear Andrew,

It’s never a good idea to offer advice where it wasn’t asked for, nor is it a good practice to listen to unsolicited advice from people you don’t know.  I’m admittedly half a continent away, and equally separated by age; and there are those close to you who more suited to speak into your life.

I just wanted you to know that besides re-blogging what Matthew Paul Turner wrote, I also prayed for you. James 3:2 says, “We all stumble in many ways…” Welcome to the community of the broken.

In hindsight, you probably weren’t ready to get married. You know that now, and I know there is much remorse attached to your story. You are no doubt much wiser today than you were just a few months ago. Of all the fruit of the Spirit, self-control is the most needed when facing temptation that is being constantly fed by a 21st century worldview of sexuality.

One of the things about your story struck me very early on in MPT’s version of it: “Andrew was born and raised Independent Fundamental Baptist, so not only was Andrew accustomed to Mark’s anger-laced fiery style of sermon, he had a deep appreciation for it.”  It never really occurred to me that people could be attracted by an authoritarian leadership style, but if that’s what you grew up with, I can see that it might have been a comfortable fit, once you got past a few of the doctrinal differences.

But then — and at this point someone would normally write, ‘through no fault of your own,’ except that it was, after all through a fault of your own’ — you saw the other side of how this authority plays out when someone apparently crosses the line from “in” to “out.”  To be labeled a “wolf,” or called a “predator.”  That’s strong language. There are some who would say you had suffered enough at this point; you were repentant, remorseful and humbled (if not humiliated) and that it was time for restoration; time to move on to the next phase, of living and walking in the fullness of all God created you for, because if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. We can know the feeling of being ‘washed clean’ of our sin and get back up on our feet standing in the righteousness of Christ.

Galatians 6:1 Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently…

I don’t get the spirit of that verse playing out in the email you received when you felt changing churches was the option you wanted to pursue, and I certainly don’t get it from the letter that was sent to the membership.

But you know what?  It doesn’t matter.  It doesn’t matter what men do or even what church leaders do.  Your ultimate judge is God himself.  He is the one you answer to. Yes, under his sovereignty pastors and leaders are appointed, and we’re told to honor that office and pray for them, but they are fallible.

In the meantime, Andrew; hang on to God.  Keep praying.  Continue to read and study your Bible.  Find a place where you can engage in corporate worship with other believers who don’t know you or know this story.  Maybe find a Christian counselor or mentor who can continue to help you work all this out over time.  But don’t allow discouragement or disillusionment to take over your life.

And pray for the people at Mars Hill.  Not a prayer that comes from a smugness nor from bitterness, but simply pray that God will lead them to be both forthright in their application of the gospel, but agents of grace in how they allow that to play out. Pray for them to get better at it, to improve in their understanding of the mystery of grace.

Pray because there are going to be other Andrews.  There’s going to be a ‘next time’ involving someone else, and the next Andrew may not be able to handle it in the manner that you did.

And don’t write that church off, either.  Church congregations are like small cities, with as many stories taking place as there are people.  There are, to be sure, countless people there who are doing good, growing in faith, and deepening their understanding of the ways of God; because of the leadership there, and sometimes in spite of the leadership there. 

Nor should you be in distress when someone you meet follows the instructions given to them in the membership letter and shuns you.  It’s far easier for humans to believe something bad about someone, and people subject to authoritarian church leadership will, after all, do what they are told. 

In the meantime, church history is filled with people who experienced rejection for a variety of reasons, including rejection from the religious establishment so you’re actually in good company.

As you choose a permanent place of worship, and enter into future relationships, I know you’ll do both with a wisdom you have gained from this process.

Your brother in Christ,

Paul Wilkinson.

January 27, 2012

Close Up: How Church Discipline Happens at Mars Hill Seattle

This is an article about how Mark Driscoll’s church — Mars Hill in Seattle, WA — handles church discipline issues and excommunication, presented anecdotally and in painstaking detail.

I have no hesitation in importing large amounts of text from other blogs if I think it means that people will actually read the subject matter in question, but in this case, you are indeed going to have to click, because the narrative is lengthy; but also because you need to reward all the work that went into making this story available.

In a two-part blog post,  Mark Driscoll’s Church Discipline Contract: Looking For True Repentance at Mars Hill Church? Sign on the Dotted Line and Mark Driscoll’s ‘Gospel Shame’: The Truth About Discipline, Excommunication, and Cult-like Control at Mars Hill author Matthew Paul Turner introduces us to a young man named Andrew.

Shortly after graduating from high school (he was homeschooled), Andrew wanted a change in scenery. The then Tennessee resident says he needed a change in scenery. He needed to get away. He needed to grow up. He needed to figure out what he was going to do with the rest of his life.

So when he turned 20, Andrew moved away from his quaint life in America’s Bible belt, and he moved to Seattle, and yes, in hopes of finding himself.

Once he was settled into life in the great Northwest, Andrew took the advice of an older sibling and visited Mars Hill Church, the congregational home of Mark Driscoll.

Andrew was born and raised Independent Fundamental Baptist, so not only was Andrew accustomed to Mark’s anger-laced fiery style of sermon, he had a deep appreciation for it. In the beginning, some of Mars Hill’s reformed theologies rubbed against Andrew’s Baptist roots, but Mark’s enthrallment for preaching “Jesus Christ crucified” eventually was what relieved Andrew’s doctrinal concerns, and it wasn’t long before he became a member. Soon thereafter, he was wading heart deep amid the friendly, committed Mars Hill community, becoming more and more comfortable in his born again reformed skin, guzzling the Driscollized water.

According to Andrew, joining Mars Hill was a good move for him. While he didn’t agree with every theological declaration that came out Mark Driscoll’s mouth, he loved his community, a devoted group of believers who seemed to love, support, and value him the way Jesus commanded. Over the next couple of years, Andrew became well connected. He volunteered. He became active in a community group. He even volunteered on Sundays as church security.

Toward the beginning of 2011, Andrew met and eventually began dating the daughter of a church elder at Mars Hill. The two fell in love quickly. Last fall, they were engaged to be married.

But shortly after becoming engaged, Andrew made a costly choice…

Again, here are the links:

August 7, 2011

Churts: When Church Hurts

Filed under: Uncategorized — Tags: , , , , , — paulthinkingoutloud @ 8:20 am

Once articles are 12-months old, they come up for review as repeats here.  This is actually two articles from last year that need to be presented again; expressing the hurts that some people have experienced in the one place on earth where they shouldn’t…

I met Mark several years ago.   He attended a similar church briefly and thought it would be the ideal spiritual environment for his two teenage sons.   He got involved himself in a midweek program, and, being a guy who has so much to give any local assembly, decided after a couple of weeks  to help stack the chairs when the meeting had ended.

“No, no;” someone quickly grabbed his arm; “That’s not how we do this.   We have an after-school program here and for insurance reasons we can only stack the chairs four chairs high.”

A little nuance  that had been lost on Mark.   But then they added, “Why don’t you just leave this job to someone else.”

Ouch.   A little over-the-top isn’t it?

Mark thought so.   He was a sensitive guy and that was a totally insensitive remark from someone in a respected leadership position.  Perhaps it was an over-reaction but he started to rethink the whole thing and decided to keep shopping for a church home.   He found one where the leadership team was a little less — for lack of a better term — anal; and where he could use his various gifts and desire to serve.

End of story, right?   Everybody wins, right?

Not exactly.   The new church didn’t have the same youth program for his teenage sons, and while nobody is blaming anybody, the lack of such a program may have contributed to where the boys are right now, which is not a very good place.

The similarities between Mark’s story and our story are huge.   Same kind of people.   Same pathetic mentality.

…I think it was Andy Stanley who said that “nobody has ever been hurt by a church; rather it’s people in the church who hurt people.”

Andy is right.

But sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference. 

The week I wrote this, it might have been better if I had named this blog Ranting Out Loud. But telling Mark’s story reminded me of Sherry’s story and I find I can’t not record it here online for someone to learn from.   Of course names have been changed.

East Grove Neighborhood Church was serious about church growth.   The new building was the pride and joy of everyone but especially Ron and Yvonne.   Ron was on every committee and every board.    Ron’s contracting company had worked hard to bring the new state-of-the-art auditorium project to completion on time, and did so within a day of the announced date for the first service.

Yvonne was as excited about the new church as her husband, but really wasn’t a people person.   She had her friends in the church to be sure, and wanted to see all the new programs and outreach succeed, but she couldn’t hide her lack of interest in getting to know some of those she perceived as the ‘lesser’ people at the church, such as Sherry.

It’s funny because if you had asked Yvonne, she would have told you how much she believed in the ministry plans of the church, but her actions just couldn’t always line up perfectly with her “on paper” ideals.   Sherry got in the crossfire of that disconnect.

That’s really too bad.   We knew Sherry.   We still keep in touch.  She is a really giving person.  An asset to any church, any place, any time.    The kind of person you want to keep excited about big-picture vision.    It wouldn’t surprise me to learn she’s a 30% tither to God’s Kingdom; and with a job that makes that percentage meaningful, although, you wouldn’t know it by appearances.

Yvonne just never spoke to Sherry, wasn’t too responsive when Sherry spoke to her; and Sherry, for all her wonderful qualities is human after all and over a couple of years allowed it to get to her.   Around that time we got to know her, and shortly after she admitted to us that she wasn’t attending that church anymore.

Both Sherry’s story and Mark’s story could be easily dismissed by readers as simply being the tales of two people who were oversensitive.   “These people just need to suck it up;” is what I can hear some of you saying.

But you don’t expect to be ignored when you’re part of a family.   Not for a minute.   The church shouldn’t work that way.   We should demonstrate that we belong to Christ by the love that we have for each other.   Visitors will see that.   Early church history documents that this is how we began.

So East Grove lost Sherry, but of course they kept Ron and Yvonne, whose contracting business hit a downturn about five years ago — two large clients couldn’t pay — and is now a shadow of its former self.   Ron got into a major depression over this and resigned from every committee and stopped a bunch of other church-related activities.

Sherry never invested herself completely in another local church after this, though she remains involved in at least a dozen ministry projects.   Her job requires she works some weekends, and a parachurch ministry that she is involved with requires her — like ourselves — to be somewhat nomadic some Sunday mornings.   But she continues to love and serve God with everything she’s got; and she really does have a lot to give.

Well, that’s Sherry’s story and you’ve also read Mark’s.    In every one of these cases I can’t help but wish things had turned out a little different for them, and also for us, who are also part of the chain of events.   In our own case I wonder what it would be like to have been able to invest twenty years in serving alongside a single faith family.   I wonder if a dynamic youth program might have helped Mark’s boys.   I wonder what all East Grove could have gained from keeping Sherry joyfully serving as part of that church family.    I wonder…

…One year later and the number of sad stories about this church continues to grow.  Brian moved here after attending a church in another province that, it must be said, did a number of things right.  While he would be the first to admit that every church is different, he offered a number of both creative and practical ideas that, to put it simply, nobody would listen to.  Finally, he just couldn’t take it any longer.  But his story will have to wait for another day… 

But hey, you learned a new word today: Churts.  Just don’t focus on the churts.  Focus on Jesus Christ, the originator and completion of our faith.

No animals were wounded in the making of today’s blog post, but a number of church attenders were left frustrated, hurt or wounded.

July 11, 2011

Perry Noble Lays Down The Law

NewSpring Church pastor Perry Noble has declared that he’s had enough of people arriving to church late, criticizing the music, etc.  They also have a rule that if you have to leave the auditorium during the message you cannot re-enter.  And kids under 12 are not allowed in the service at all.  A little over-the-top authoritarian?  Here’s what FBC Jax Watchdog had to say:

It ain’t easy being a member these days at NewSpring Church pastored by Perry Noble – the rules, the regulations, the sheep beatings, the curses.

According to Perry Noble, you “officially suck as a human being” if you express to Perry that you are purposely late to church because you like his preaching but don’t care for the music style.

NewSpring members need to be careful that their church doesn’t begin to fall into the category of a cult. Cults often begin by having a very demanding, charismatic leader, they will require conformity with rigid extra-biblical rules, they will devalue outsiders and non-conformists, and they will suppress dissent.

You see all four of these beginning to emerge at NewSpring. Not saying they are a cult, but when the charismatic leader starts telling people that :

  • - they can’t come back into the auditorium after the sermon starts even if they leave to tend to a child or go to the bathroom;
  • - that you suck as a human being if you disagree with the pastor over music styles;
  • - you are not allowed to designate how your donations are spent;
  • - you must give 10% of your income to the church un-designated or God will curse you;
  • - parents cannot bring children younger than 12 years of age into the church services;
  • - you must show up to church on time or you can’t get into the church service;

…then you better begin to get concerned.

So I decided to check out the sermon video for myself.  Perry makes some good points.  People have become apathetic about arriving to church on time, while they would never think to be late for work, or a sports match.  And some people seem to have no problem about the people they are distracting when they sit near the front, need to leave, and then return.  As for the issue of kids, I agree with Perry that his sermons tend toward PG-13 content.

But some of it was very disturbing to listen to.  Is something else going on here?  Where is grace in all this?  Why give up an entire Sunday sermon to an apologetic for the church’s rules and regulations?  Let’s return to the FBC Jax Watchdog blog:

Lest you think that I’m overstating things by bringing up the word “cult” – don’t forget what happened to a critic of Perry Noble’s at the hands of staff members a few years back that is the subject of an on-going lawsuit. You see from the “you suck as a human being” quote how those who even mildly express dissent are devalued by the pastor. I would say it is this kind of rhetoric from the pastor towards dissenters that breeds the actions taken by a staff member against the Noble critic back in 2008 and 2009.

Perry Noble even tells the parents that if they don’t conform to the “authority” of the church leaders, they will breed rebelliousness in the hearts of their children . No, actually subjecting one’s self to non-biblical requirements for the pleasure of the pastor might teach your kids that they must endure spiritual abuse at the hands of an over-bearing preacher.

This is classic sheep beating. A pastor is to be the picture of humility and servant-hood for the people he shepherds, but instead Perry Noble is a stand-up comedian who makes jokes about troublesome church members, denigrates Christians who disagree with him, and lays down extra-biblical rules that are burdensome on people.Unfortunately in Perry Noble and other mega pastor superstars these days, we have professional religious men who have turned Christianity from its essence: the release of sinful men and women from the burden of having to try to please God with their works and their alms through simple faith in Christ – into a strict religious system that demands conformity to religious practices, tells people how they must think and what rules they must obey to be pleasing to God and their priest, and uses tactics of guilt and shame in the process. And, oh by the way, they get filthy rich while doing it.

I’m pretty sure that if Jesus were here, he would warn the people of NewSpring about the arrogant Perry Noble and his professional religious men and describe them as he did the Pharisees:

“They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger.” (Mat 23:4)

March 19, 2011

Churches Can’t Hurt People; People Hurt People

While it’s only one year old, I want to rerun this piece because there’s a lot of hurtin’ goin’ on out there. It’s a post that was a continuation of my wife’s guest post a year plus one day ago. At the time, I promised I would return to some of the issues raised to look at them objectively.

A year later, I am only beginning to realize the level of the abuse she suffered.  If she had been raped by the church elder who presided over the meeting she attended, there would be an outcry.  Because it was only spiritual abuse, her situation is ignored.  For her sake, I refuse to let these issues die…

1. How long does a person attend your church before they are considered for service?

Andy Stanley’s Fortune 500 survey company found that in the first five weeks at NorthPoint, newcomers are already trying to “discern next steps,” and possible areas of active involvement. On the other hand, when 60′s rocker Barry McGuire came to Christ, his pastor suggested the famed composer/singer should take a seat in the back row to grow and nurture his faith — for a full year! Some say that in a small town church, “Once a visitor, always a visitor.” Where’s the balance? Of course, in my wife’s case, she wasn’t exactly a newcomer, which brings us to…

2. When someone who was a former member of your church returns, does their past experience count for anything?

Clearly, some churches expect you to jump through all the hoops as though you’d never been there before. One woman who wrote us off-the-blog put it this way, “It’s when your motives are questioned and you had thought you had enough ‘capital’ in years of service to be trusted…” Churches will have “Celebration Sundays” to revel in their glorious past history, but if someone who is part of that history should return, that experience, even if it involved some tough pioneering, isn’t always respected. For my wife to be classed as a “visitor” is simply too much kommel-bonnaugery. Which brings us to…

3. Is someone who has only been part of a church for ten years truly fit to reprimand, discipline or judge someone whose history with that church goes back twenty years?

Part of the problem in the body of Christ is that we really don’t know each other. But it gets even more complicated when people who have given years of service are being judged — or spiritually abused — by people who, despite their convictions otherwise, don’t know all there is to know. (Or worse, have been given short ‘debriefs’ by a departing pastor about individuals in the church, not unlike those student files kept in the school office.) Sometimes, this problem manifests itself where a church member finds themselves being rebuked by someone half their age. There may be Biblical precedent for that, but it’s still unnatural, and can be avoided by appointing a different mediator. Which brings us to…

4. Are the elders in your church really “elder,” or were they chosen by some other standard?

Some churches really need to bring back the concept of elders and deacons. (See the story in Acts 7 on the choosing of Stephen for the nuances.) Some elders are on the church board for the wrong reasons, like, for example, their wives talked them into it. Some elders truly “represent” the congregation in a democratic sense, while others see themselves as a sub-priestly class of elite members. Again, another comment received this week; “…as I think you sense, the leadership there is like a team of soldiers walking through enemy territory with the rank and file members and adherents being ‘the enemy!’ It feels as if there are the leaders and then there are the rest of us — the leaders being a select group of others who think alike and run the show.” Which brings us to…

5. What about Church leaders who will look you right in the eye and lie through their teeth? Is that ever justified?

The conversation my wife had revealed a number of statements which, at the very least, were absolute non sequiturs. They told her that she was unfit to lead because people in the congregation didn’t know her, yet just three weeks before that, I had to ask four different people to find out the name of the woman who had led worship that week. My wife was baptized there. Our children were dedicated there. Her husband served on paid staff there for four years. And nobody knows her? Maybe what this is all about is really…

6. Is the elders’ board of a church really where the heart of ministry is taking place? Or even in touch with the real ministry happening?

I doubt that. In fact, if you really want to see corporate life change (aka spiritual formation) take place and they ask you to serve on an administrative board, run as fast you can in the other direction. “Run, Forrest, run!” Just wanting to serve on one of these boards is like wanting to run for public office. And being involved in service is just as political, where you do everything you can to keep your reputation ahead of actual service. And just as in politics, these people will do everything they can to keep people off the stage who might, through raw authenticity and transparency, challenge their carefully developed status quo. People like that are, simply put, a threat. This is not where organic leadership is taking place. Which bring us to…

7. Do people in your church get hurt or wounded or abused?

My wife was told that placing herself in profile ministry meant she was leaving herself open to hurt. Was this an admission on their part that this is a church that hurts people? The church leadership should bear ultimate responsibility for any hurting, wounding or abusing that takes place within their province. Furthermore they should be strive to make their church a place of healing; a place of grace. Decisions taken at the board level which are simply leading to further hurt should be considered a worst-case scenario. But this is likely to happen because…

8. Can a church leader be doing “the Lord’s work” and at the same time be about “the Devil’s business?”

Absolutely. People are flawed. They are going to get caught up in what “may seem right,” but actually take perverse delight in stabbing someone and then twisting the knife. Any high school student who has studied Shakespeare knows enough about human nature to know that these personality types are out there. As Mark Antony says, “These are honorable men.”  It’s all about building their kingdom and especially their desire for power and control. So the obvious question is…

9. Why do we keep coming back?

Small(er) towns don’t offer people the advantage of packing up and moving to another church. The mix of evangelism, teaching, worship, doctrinal slant, demographic composition; combined with an individual’s history in a place; plus a blind optimism that someday things will improve; all these things sometimes mean that there is literally nowhere else to go. (And trust us, we’ve done the church plant thing, too; it was a great experience; but the plants died or got put on haitus for other reasons.) Besides, this church is our HOME. Figuratively, those are our kids’ height marks on the back of the door; that’s our kids’ artwork on the refrigerator; not so figuratively, that’s the corner where I prayed with that woman for a dramatic healing; that’s the song my wife taught the congregation just a few years ago; that’s the weekly group that we started.

10. Is it possible that it’s just time to step aside and let another generation have their turn?

If that’s the case, the people working so hard to evict us from active ministry have only four or five years left themselves. And they are perpetuating a system which will truly come back to haunt them. But then again, many of the people doing worship service leadership in Canada are much older than their U.S. counterparts. So while a part of me is lamenting my wife’s loss of opportunity to do the thing she loves, and the thing she’s most gifted to do, I keep watching the horizon for that young, unshaven guy with a guitar over his shoulder who is going to bounce this crowd off the stage and, with his peers, bounce this particular collection of elders out of the church boardroom.

I guess that sounds a bit mean spirited, but honestly, things can only get better. Things can only improve. Of course I’ve said that before…

The new pastor who had arrived around this time continues to distance himself from my wife’s situation by saying he doesn’t want to interfere in departmental decisions. He may have bought into the organized tainting of her reputation.  He’s never heard her speak or lead worship.

She returns for visits at my insistence — I have my own history and roots in this church — but is extremely uncomfortable, as you would expect someone to be if, using the example I started with, someone who had raped them was making the announcements or leading the worship.  The new pastor has the utmost respect for this guy.  I suppose time will tell.  No, wait; I know time will tell.

What’s worse, the hurting continues; another person, with so much to offer this church, recently left.  He’s hurting and broken over it, and I am hurting for him. He’s trying to find another church home.  You just want to grab some of these so-called church leaders and start shaking them and shaking them and shaking them…  Bastards!  Sorry.  Only word I can find right now.

On the plus side, my wife is currently on a monthly worship rotation at another church and attends there most other weeks also.  They give her the freedom of a half hour worship set to explore the depth of worship, to produce original videos, to write contemplative and sobering liturgies and to include off-the-wall fun stuff, too.  Their gain is the other church’s tragic loss.

Related post: April 4, 2008 – Growing Deep RootsSometimes you wanna go where everybody knows your name… and they’re always glad you came.

Related post: May 1, 2008 – Choosing a Church – This post is where I came up with the phrase, “a place where you can be comfortable being broken.” and the footnote, “When you have true spiritual family in various places, they don’t mind it when you crash!”

November 17, 2010

Wednesday Link List

Probably the most mixed-up link list ever posted here.  If this is your first time; please check out last week’s!   And though I don’t have a specific link for it, today is the 40th anniversary of the live recording of the Elton John album, 11-17-70, which, at the very least, gives us a nice graphic.  (Note to U.S. readers: note it’s actually 17-11-70, the right way to do it.  Smallest to largest, get it?)

  • Starting in a different place this week, we go back to October’s Catalyst conference, where Craig Groeshel spoke on the generational tension that can exist in some churches, both large and small.  Kent Shaffer at Church Relevance summarized this well, and also has similar thumbnails of the other main conference speakers.
  • Julie Clawson fuses the Eucharist with a different interpretation (or explanation) of Jesus feeding the 5,000. “We were asked to share whatever we had with us–gum, granola bars, soft drinks, Goldfish, Altoids. The table overflowed with abundance, which we served to each other.”  Check it out at One Hand Clapping.
  • This was also linked at Christianity 201 on the weekend, but should be seen by more people, even though it’s written primarily to pastors.   Skye Jethani on the Ten Commandments of Scripture Interpretation.
  • This is a longer one, but it’s a must read.   On the weekend iMonk ran a classic from the late Michael Spencer on the Archie Bunker mentality.  “Archie loved an argument the way most people love dessert…” “I’ve decided that Archie Bunker is the patron saint of Christians who can’t stop making their point…”   And this one, my favorite:

    “I meet Calvinists who have no control over their need to make all Biblical discussions turn into debates on predestination. There are young earth creationists who hunt down anything that smells like a less-than-literal view of Genesis one and label it evolution. Pentecostal/Charismatics have all varieties of little brothers of Saint Archie who can’t stand it that someone isn’t riding the latest wave of the Holy Spirit into last days revival. Seminary students who can’t understand why there is anyone refusing to read N.T. Wright, and hand-wringers staying up nights writing letters to people who do read N.T. Wright.”

    You can read it all here.

  • And while we’re in a mood for ranting, we couldn’t not share — the above piece notwithstanding — this piece where John Shore lets out his frustration over people who tell him what to think.  He calls it Church Authority Smurch Smashmority.
  • Matt Appling visits a touring art installation based on Chairman Mao’s cultural revolution in China and ends up considering this particular piece entitled The Execution of Christ.
  • Don’t know how, but my wife stumbled on an interesting thread of articles all having to do with an obscure brand of medical products we’d never heard of: 666 Cough Syrup and other 666 cold remedies.  In this link, a customer is on the phone with a customer service rep trying to get them to see the other side of this; “But I mean it’s not, like, ’665′ or ’667.’ It’s ’666.’”
  • Okay, with a few exceptions, there’s not a lot of depth or substance to this week’s list but in case you’ve missed the fun people have been having for the past month at text-to-video site xtranormal.com, here’s one of the best:  How To Plant a Church.  And The New Music Minister.   And The New Youth Minister. (Don’t get confused that they’re all wearing the same shirt; this ain’t Veggie Tales.)
  • For a more serious take on church planting, check out Nancy Beach’s recent observations.
  • Our cartoons this week are from the UK: Jon Birch’s popular The Ongoing Adventures of ASBO Jesus.   It’s been so long, we should explain that the acronym stands for the British term, Anti Social Behavior Order.   ASBO is always thought-provoking and often controversial.   Click the images to link.

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